possible reason for weight belt?

[Majickyl]

I recently made some significant changes to my rig and wanted to practice gear donning and doffing in the water. I have no ditchable weight (no pockets and no weight belt, my steel BP and tank are enough), so I was worried I'd rocket up once I got my gear off. To my surprise as long as I hung on to my gear and maintained some semblence of trim by using my abs and back, it was not actually that difficult to maintain depth so long as I didn't hold lungfuls of air. And I'm a pretty buoyant gal.

Also, getting back into my gear I found it much easier to position the gear with the butt of the tanks at my head, BC side up, valve near my waist (for lack of a better analogy, 69ing the rig), put my arms through the straps and flip it over my head. That way it was immediately back on top of me holding me down - no awkward spinning required - and all I had to do was buckle up.

I've also heard it recommended that when doffing with integrated weights you can do the opposite maneuver to the one I describes for donning, flipping it over your head so you end up with the rig on your lap, holding you down, with the valve in your stomach.

Even without a weight belt, I think it's doable with practice.

 

[Majickyl]

Thanks for all the feedback and stories! When I go to the dive shop to pick up my tanks, I will ask for some belt weights.

In the pool, my setup was the back inflating BCD with 20 lbs - 5lb each waist pocket and 5 lbs each in small pockets behind me. Midway through the pool, the instructor have me a 3lb weight that I simply put inside the wetsuit. Total 23lb plus AL80 cylinder. This is where I felt the most neutral.

What would a good starting point be? 10-13 lbs in the BCD and 10lb on a belt?

As a side note: There are 3 students in the class. We all started with 3000-3100 psi in 80cf tanks. As the biggest guy was getting to 500 psi, I was just breaking 2000 psi. Pretty crazy the difference in consumption.

That sounds like a lot of weight to me. My suggestion to anyone finishing an OW class... start ditching weight. As much as you can. Most students come out of OW overweighted.

When you felt "most neutral" how much air did you have in your BC? You shouldn't need to use much at all to maintain neutral buoyancy. The weight you have, the less air you need in your BC, and the easier it is to maintain neutral buoyancy. If you can, get in the pool with a 500 psi AL80 (if that's what you plan to dive), no weight, and no air in your BC. You should be positively buoyant from the empty tank. Then add weight until you are neutral without air in your BC. This is the amount you need, enough for you to hold a safety stop with a near-empty tank.

That way, the air you add to your BC is only compensating for the swing of the buoyancy of the tank and your exposure protection at depth.

If you still need enough weight to worry about splitting, I'd do the same thing without your BC. However much it takes to compensate for your natural buoyancy and exposure protection is what you'd need to be neutral with your gear off. Put that on the belt.

 

[spectrum]

I have read through numerous weight belt vs Integrated. I haven't seen many arguments for separating the weight. Can't wait for Monterey!

James

I always advocate integrating only the weight you need on your upper body to achieve trim for the reasons you describe. The rest can go on a belt or harness system. the latter is especially desirable with a drysuit.

Entanglement or even checking for a leak or other detail is always a possibility. In some cases this stuff can be delegated to a buddy but you can't always count on that for numerous reasons like separation or competence. If nothing else it's a good drill to do from time to time so why make it difficult.


Pete

 

[j yaeger]

svracing-don't forget to add 5lbs +/-for the salt water
compared to the pool-or you'll be sorry....
have fun on your ows
yaeg

 

[flots am]

My thinking, as my heart rate comes back to normal, is that a separate weight belt would have made that process much less strenuous and possibly safer. The balance to that thought is: How often does the BCD ever need to come off? Has anyone here ever needed to remove their BCD at depth? if so, what depth?

I have read through numerous weight belt vs Integrated. I haven't seen many arguments for separating the weight. Can't wait for Monterey!

Everybody is going to tell you that their favorite method is the one you should use. However in reality the one you should use is the one that is best for you.

A weight belt with a metal buckle works well for people who have a waist that's smaller than their hips. If it's the other way around (or they're equal), there's a good chance you'll lose your weights at some point.. If you have a weight belt with a plastic buckle you'll also lose your weights at some point (plastic buckles have a nasty habit of spontaneously disassembling)

Integrated weights work well if designed properly with a mechanical retention system (clips, wire, etc.), not Velcro. Velcro eventually wears out and you'll lose your weights. You want something that will hold your weight without a shadow of doubt. Large fastex clips (squeeze clips) work nicely as do a number of schemes involving cables.

A weight harness works well if you need more weight than you can get on a belt or into the BC, or if your waist isn't smaller than your hips. It's not uncommon for a drysuit diver with thick underwear to need 30Lbs or more, which exceeds the capacity of all BCs I'm aware of and is also very hard to retain on a weight belt.

So the answer is to use what works best for you. No matter which one you pick, it will be a compromise and no matter which one you pick it will require training and practice. Removing and replacing a weight-integrated BC should be included in your class if you plan on using one, as should removing and replacing a weightbelt. Neither is much harder than the other underwater, once you get a little practice.

Just make sure that you pick something that works for you and learn how to use it.

flots.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Everybody is going to tell you that their favorite method is the one you should use. However in reality the one you should use is the one that is best for you.

A weight belt with a metal buckle works well for people who have a waist that's smaller than their hips. If it's the other way around (or they're equal), there's a good chance you'll lose your weights at some point.. If you have a weight belt with a plastic buckle you'll also lose your weights at some point (plastic buckles have a nasty habit of spontaneously disassembling)Integrated weights work well if designed properly with a mechanical retention system (clips, wire, etc.), not Velcro. Velcro eventually wears out and you'll lose your weights. You want something that will hold your weight without a shadow of doubt. Large fastex clips (squeeze clips) work nicely as do a number of schemes involving cables.

A weight harness works well if you need more weight than you can get on a belt or into the BC, or if your waist isn't smaller than your hips. It's not uncommon for a drysuit diver with thick underwear to need 30Lbs or more, which exceeds the capacity of all BCs I'm aware of and is also very hard to retain on a weight belt.

So the answer is to use what works best for you. No matter which one you pick, it will be a compromise and no matter which one you pick it will require training and practice. Removing and replacing a weight-integrated BC should be included in your class if you plan on using one, as should removing and replacing a weightbelt. Neither is much harder than the other underwater, once you get a little practice.

Just make sure that you pick something that works for you and learn how to use it.

flots.

This bolded statement is NOT necessarily true. It is reasonable accurate for nylon belts. People are FAT and normal weight belts fall off people because they have fat guts. The solution is not to put all your lead in weight integrated BC (as many manufacturer's seem to propose) but to use an ELASTIC rubber belt. Like the ones freedivers use.

I think it is hilarious that the OP is not even certified and s/he has already discovered the huge drawbacks of keeping all the lead (when you have a lot) on the BC. I personally think it is dangerous for the exact reason the OP described.

Mabe the OP is smart enough to realize that some of the "mainstream scuba" solutions are stupid and maybe he will have the brains to try a rubber weight belt.

I strongly believe that integrated weight systems would not be so popular if people were not so fat and also if they had rubber (elastic) belts that won't slide off their fat little asses.

 

[fnfalman]

In the pool, my setup was the back inflating BCD with 20 lbs - 5lb each waist pocket and 5 lbs each in small pockets behind me. Midway through the pool, the instructor have me a 3lb weight that I simply put inside the wetsuit. Total 23lb plus AL80 cylinder. This is where I felt the most neutral.

What would a good starting point be? 10-13 lbs in the BCD and 10lb on a belt?

Yes. Half and half is usually a good ratio.

As a side note: There are 3 students in the class. We all started with 3000-3100 psi in 80cf tanks. As the biggest guy was getting to 500 psi, I was just breaking 2000 psi. Pretty crazy the difference in consumption.

That's why I hate women.

 

[vinegarbiscuit]

Yup, I've doffed and donned my BC to diagnose the source of a leak (it was the tank O-ring). An unsecured cylinder would be another reason (although it's never happened to me yet). I don't wear any weight, so one has to pay attention to the whole process, but you get used to it. You're very wise to practice in a pool!

As for the amount of weight you actually require, well, that's contingent on so many things: your setup, your experience level (you will drop weight as your comfort increases) and so on. Height and weight can provide a good starting point, but that's about it: bodyfat, muscular development, breathing (ie fully emptying lungs upon exhalation) and so on also play a role. carrying an Al80 tank and 23 lb of weight does sound rather a lot, but it's early days yet, and as I said, there are a zillion variables, so it's not always kosher to make an 'online diagnosis'. If you can experiment with a weight check at the end of every dive as your confidence grows, I bet you'll start dropping weight. have your instructor or a wildly experienced buddy give you some pointers, and the weight will start dropping even faster. The way you wear your weight - belt, harness, backplate, whatever - depends onfactors like personal preference, your body shape and the final configuration of the gear you actually purchase. But there are many options available to you.

 

[g1138]

To the OP, you've basically nailed the purpose of a weight belt on the spot!
I split my weights between my BC and belt with more on my belt.
It makes for easy ditching, only 1 fluid movement with one hand rather than yanking 2 pull tabs (or 1 if you go with zeagle)
It also keeps the BC light when you go to don it on the land.

In regards to your question of how often you take the BC off.
I've taken it off on occasions where my buddy starts to constantly worry about air coming from my first stage (I have a Sherwood sealed-piston reg with a dry bleed system), and also when I put my tank on too high and am in the middle of a dive.
Both of which don't happen often at all.

Other reasons could be because you have kelp entangled on you, or fishing line. Personally I'd rather take care of those things myself rather then rely on my buddy. The last time I ask a buddy to free me from kelp he just ripped a few strands off and left a bunch still trailing on me.

 

[Kilili]

Well, 1,400 dives and haven't done it yet, nor have I ever felt i had a reason for doing so. Though there can be good reason in certain cases involving entanglement and such, it's rare to be in that situation. Carry a dive shears or zip knife, and cut your way out of entanglements. Do you really want to remove your gear and fight with it and entanglement at the same time? Isn't this one of the reasons you're supposed to be diving with a buddy? [though I dive solo, and get along just fine]

In general, removing gear underwater is one of those silly things one encounters in some certification classes.

As for weighting, I use a stainless steel plate, plus weights attached to the harness. If diving with a 5 mm, I'll put on a weight belt with some more lead.

For those that have tanks that slip loose, duh, someone's not paying attention, and that can be dangerous. Check your gear before jumping in.