pony up...

[Snowbear]

...the 104 is a volume based tank and affected less by pressure where as aluminum 80 is a pressure based tank and is affected greatly by pressure.

Could you please explain what you mean by this?
Thanks

 

[MikeFerrara]

Leigh,

Even if you have an outstanding buddy and practice your buddy skills every dive (as well as other skills) like my buddy and I do you can (for only one example) still get separated and as you know Murphy will start working and after Murphy comes Darwin and for most people who meet Darwin end up meeting the Grim reaper. NOT A GOOD THING!!! Besides if your diving professionals are carrying pony’s why shouldn’t you?!?! Your diving professionals are leading by example and want you to see that they are carrying the ponies and emulate them. Besides most dive shops that I have been to will fill pony for no charge because they want you to have the redundancy and the safety factor that comes with it.

I'm a dive professional and I don't use a poney.

What Boogie711 is not keeping in mind is that in the video that person had a manifold and duels in order to shut down a post or at the very least a J valve. The percentile of people who carry duels or j valves is very low when compared to the total number of certified divers and the people who carry duels do not carry them for the majority of there dives. (at least the people that I know through local shops) practicing breathing off a free flowing reg is a great skill to have honed but should be close to the bottom of the list for consideration when faced with a free flowing reg, the idea being to preserve the gas supply in case of other emergencies and getting you and your buddy to the surface unharmed.

Breathing from a free flowing reg is a simple skill that's taught in entry level classes.

Breathing the free flow is easy enough and with good gas management practices and from any depth that I'd take a single tank to it'll get you to the surface alright. You'r buddy is the back up.

You are not paranoid. And you are correct to say that a second stage freeze up can cause the first stage to freeze. Do not forget that when you go for your buddies octo that you are stressed and then your buddy will become stressed and then he will become task loaded trying to help you all causing RMV’s (breathing rates to go up) casing even a larger load on the buddy’s first stage and if you do not normally dive with this buddy or maybe this is even your first time, his reg may be a piece of ---- and will not be able to handle the load causing labored breathing on both of your parts, and like you mentioned there is always the possibility that that first stage will free flow.

The answer to the described stress of sharing air is to practice. This is another simple skill that really shouldn't result in any appreciable increase in stress.

Again Boogie711 is being tech minded and not sensitive to the average diver. Most divers do not carry a steel 104 which in normally overfilled by most shops not to mention that the 104 is a volume based tank and affected less by pressure where as aluminum 80 is a pressure based tank and is affected greatly by pressure. And last of all the last 24 cubic feet of gas makes a very large difference and that 30 seconds that he was talking about would not be there, instead you would have ran out of air long before that.

What do you mean when you say that a 104 is a volume based tank and an Al 80 is pressure based?

What do you mean when you say that a 104 isn't effected as much by pressure?

Include equations in your explaination please.

Boogie711 is taking about the Hogarthian hose configuration (which I use, do a search on it) again he is not being sensitive to the sport diver. In your case you would defiantly go for your buddy’s octo, going for his primary would cause your buddy undo stress and make the situation worse. The best idea would be for you to go to your pony.

That might be cause to reconsider the equipment configuration.

ALL TECH CERTIFICATION AGENCYS TEACH SELF SEFENCY AND REDUNDUNCY AND USING A PONY ON DIVES THAT DOES NOT INCLUED DULES FOLLOWS THAT GIDELINE.

All?

 

[matt_unique]

Common sense should tell you NEVER to RELY on a buddy. That goes against my tech and recreational training and any courses (agencies) I have researched. Tech training emphasizes "team action/planning" but "self reliance". This is a key distinction. A good recreational instructor will do the same.

Why carry a second cutting tool since your buddy has one? Why carry a lost deco gas contingency table if your buddy has one? Why carry a reel and lift/deco bag if your buddy has one? The list goes on and on.....

This decision should take you two seconds.....

--Matt

 

[kalvyn]

Breathing from a free flowing reg is a simple skill that's taught in entry level classes.

Breathing the free flow is easy enough and with good gas management practices and from any depth that I'd take a single tank to it'll get you to the surface alright. You'r buddy is the back up.

Actually, I wasn't taught how to breathe from a free-flowing regulator in my OW or AOW and still wouldn't know how to do it, truth be told.

This is probably a stupid question, but why wouldn't I switch to my safe second if my primary reg started free-flowing? Are we really talking about a first stage failure here rather than a primary second stage failure? I've always wondered about this.

Jimmie

 

[MikeFerrara]

Actually, I wasn't taught how to breathe from a free-flowing regulator in my OW or AOW and still wouldn't know how to do it, truth be told.

I don't know that all agencies require it but PADI does.

This is probably a stupid question, but why wouldn't I switch to my safe second if my primary reg started free-flowing? Are we really talking about a first stage failure here rather than a primary second stage failure? I've always wondered about this.

Jimmie

If you only have a single first stage (single outlet valve)...

All the gas is going out the free flowing one. Why not breath it? It may even be hard to get much air out of the other second stage depending on the reg. If one reg is in a wide open free flow the first stage may not be able to maintain anything close to the correct intermediate pressure making breathing from the other second stage hard.

A free flow can be caused by either the first or the second stage. If it's the first stage the free flow will be in whichever second stage opens first...meaning the one you're breathing on. Another reason to not just assume you can switch regs.

Of course if you have an h-valve or doubles you can shut down the offending post and switch to the other reg (wich is also a different first stage.

Breathing from a free flow is easy. Some people like to open their mouth a little to let extra gas escape but you don't need to. You're teeth might get a little cold but other than that it can't hurt you.

Some divers have a little trouble controlling buoyancy with a free flow due both to all the excitement (bubbles in the face)and the bubbles...they tend to take you up with them. The solution is to rotate your head to the side leting the bubble escape without obscuring your vision or messing with your buoyancy control.

 

[PonyBottle]

I've been doing searches on it and there are all sorts of posts from people saying 'you never need a pony if you have good buddy skills and aren't an idiot'.

"Only YOU can think for you.
Only YOU can swim for you.
Only YOU can breathe for you"

In short, no one but YOU can guarantee your survival.
YOU must be a responsible diver.

...Tom Mount​

 

[MikeFerrara]

"Only YOU can think for you.
Only YOU can swim for you.
Only YOU can breathe for you"

In short, no one but YOU can guarantee your survival.
YOU must be a responsible diver.

...Tom Mount​

Very good. A quote right out of an IANTD text book.

From what I know I don't think Tom Mount is against poney bottles, however, most divers that use them seem to be those that are doing dives beyond what their skills, training and equipment seem up for. They hose up their equipment configuration by hanging extra tanks and hoses on that aren't effective in any kind of real emergency anyway.

Check out what the IANTD "Technical Diving Encyclopedia" has to say about how to evaluate an equipment configuration.

Also you could email Tom directly or even stop over to TDS and PM him or ask him in an open thread.

Also, for certain IANTD classes like the Deep Diver class or the Advanced Nitrox a redundant supply is required and a poney bottle is a permitted option but certainly not recommended over anything else. As an IANTD instructor, though, I wouldn't permit it cuz it hoses everything up. LOL

 

[armyscuba]

Was this thread about using a PONY bottle? Well that's what I thought anyway. Risk Management in in Your hands alone..Get a Pony Bottle..Do Yourself a favor..at 130 ft go with a 30 cu. ft. with an SPG rig it to Your tank or sling it like a Deco bottle. My Dive buddy is My best friend..We split on many dives particularly when we are Spearfishing chasing fish. We have Dive Alert Hammerheads for contact and have numerous beep tones for messaging, including surfacing to regroup. It sure won't hurt You..that's for sure.

 

[scubasrm2]

Here's my 2 cents;

Go with independant duals.
For a few bucks more than the cost of a pony, reg. and pg, you can get a set of bands and an other full sized tank(a 30 is going for about the same as an 80).
The pluses; better balance, more air and ready to upgrade with a manifold in the future.
The only minus in my opinon is they weigh more out of the water.

 

[UWSojourner]

"Only YOU can think for you.​

You obviously don't know the DIR people here.