pony up...

[Boogie711]

Leigh - what's wrong with breathing off a freeflowing reg?

I've done it. It's not rocket science.

There was a great clip I watched in a DIR-Fundamentals class... one of the students reg started to freeflow. His buddy deployed the long hose immediately, but the student switched to his backup, shut down the post and carried on. A minute later, he opened the post, the freeflow had stopped, and he went back to the long hose. It was so non-chalant that the instructor had to point it out to the class.

And by the way - where we dive 46 degrees is WARM.

 

[leigh]

A freeflowing reg won't get you to the surface from 130'. My thinking was with a pony you don't have to think about whether or not the freeflow will stop. You can still make a normal ascent with safety stop(s). If the freeflow stops (or your reg becomes no longer frozen as you ascend into wamer water) then great, but if not, you've got a good backup. As I understand it more draws off the firststage can worsen freezing potential. So say you freeflow and chew up the rest of your air. Grab your buddy's octo and the increased load causes his 1st stage to freeze. Then you're SOL doing a CESA together hoping for the best. Maybe I'm just paranoid?

 

[Boogie711]

I have intentionally freeflowed a second stage in an effort to purposefully drain a tank. From about 2000 psi in a 104, it took about 4 minutes to drain down to 500 psi. That was near the surface, granted, but assuming you only get 90 seconds of air, from 100 feet that still puts you at 30 feet. If the extremely unlikely event your buddy starts to freeflow then, you can probably do a full safety stop... it wouldn't be comfy, but it's possible.

I would argue a better solution is to shut down the valve, go to your buddies primary (not his octo - his backup reg is for him) and wait 1 minute, while slowly ascending. Chances are good the reg will have warmed up by then and there won't be a problem.

 

[leigh]

Okay, then please also talk me through the hypothetical with your reg freezing at 130'?

(And as for grabbing primary vs octo--depends on the setup. I think most recreational divers still have a setup that works best by handing their buddy their octo. Not everyone has those combined reg/power inflator doodags. But I digress...and I've already threadjacked so I'm feeling guilty )

 

[Boogie711]

Who said anything about combined reg/power inflator doodags? Those are EVIL and should be outlawed!!!!! AUGH!

Do a search on "long hose routing." And I would thoroughly recommend picking up a copy of Jarrod Jablonski's "Fundamentals of Better Diving."

 

[tech.diver9]

Leigh,

Even if you have an outstanding buddy and practice your buddy skills every dive (as well as other skills) like my buddy and I do you can (for only one example) still get separated and as you know Murphy will start working and after Murphy comes Darwin and for most people who meet Darwin end up meeting the Grim reaper. NOT A GOOD THING!!! Besides if your diving professionals are carrying pony’s why shouldn’t you?!?! Your diving professionals are leading by example and want you to see that they are carrying the ponies and emulate them. Besides most dive shops that I have been to will fill pony for no charge because they want you to have the redundancy and the safety factor that comes with it.

What Boogie711 is not keeping in mind is that in the video that person had a manifold and duels in order to shut down a post or at the very least a J valve. The percentile of people who carry duels or j valves is very low when compared to the total number of certified divers and the people who carry duels do not carry them for the majority of there dives. (at least the people that I know through local shops) practicing breathing off a free flowing reg is a great skill to have honed but should be close to the bottom of the list for consideration when faced with a free flowing reg, the idea being to preserve the gas supply in case of other emergencies and getting you and your buddy to the surface unharmed.

You are not paranoid. And you are correct to say that a second stage freeze up can cause the first stage to freeze. Do not forget that when you go for your buddies octo that you are stressed and then your buddy will become stressed and then he will become task loaded trying to help you all causing RMV’s (breathing rates to go up) casing even a larger load on the buddy’s first stage and if you do not normally dive with this buddy or maybe this is even your first time, his reg may be a piece of ---- and will not be able to handle the load causing labored breathing on both of your parts, and like you mentioned there is always the possibility that that first stage will free flow.

Again Boogie711 is being tech minded and not sensitive to the average diver. Most divers do not carry a steel 104 which in normally overfilled by most shops not to mention that the 104 is a volume based tank and affected less by pressure where as aluminum 80 is a pressure based tank and is affected greatly by pressure. And last of all the last 24 cubic feet of gas makes a very large difference and that 30 seconds that he was talking about would not be there, instead you would have ran out of air long before that.

Boogie711 is taking about the Hogarthian hose configuration (which I use, do a search on it) again he is not being sensitive to the sport diver. In your case you would defiantly go for your buddy’s octo, going for his primary would cause your buddy undo stress and make the situation worse. The best idea would be for you to go to your pony.

ALL TECH CERTIFICATION AGENCYS TEACH SELF SEFENCY AND REDUNDUNCY AND USING A PONY ON DIVES THAT DOES NOT INCLUED DULES FOLLOWS THAT GIDELINE.

 

[matt_unique]

Be self reliant and get a pony. Sling it like a stage bottle or hard mount it with a bracket. Make sure you can reach the valve. I would suggest a 30CF bottle at a minimum.

--Matt

 

[Boogie711]

"Tech" Diver 9 - the simplest point I can make in reply is that no one should be at 130 feet (which is what her question was based on) in a single.

Rather than using equipment to make up for poor technique, I'm advocating using skills and proper trainining. Which would mean knowing where your buddy is.

Like I said - I have a pony on every dive - strapped to my buddies back.

 

[JacobsonC2]

"Tech" Diver 9 - the simplest point I can make in reply is that no one should be at 130 feet (which is what her question was based on) in a single.

Rather than using equipment to make up for poor technique, I'm advocating using skills and proper trainining. Which would mean knowing where your buddy is.

Like I said - I have a pony on every dive - strapped to my buddies back.

WOW! i really started something here.....

 

[Boogie711]

No you haven't. This is an old argument beaten to death. I'm done here.