Pony setup: Octopus or not ?

[usub]

Thanks for opinions and advices guys. Looks like for now, I'll ditch the octo

 

[Teller]

The only pony I have ever seen with two second stages are the drop/hang tanks that get tossed over the side of the boat on a 15 foot line for saftey stops, although you shouldnt need to use that. To add an octo to a pony doesnt seem like a very good idea. What if you had a three diver team? Would you have three second stages on the pony?

 

[usub]

The only pony I have ever seen with two second stages are the drop/hang tanks that get tossed over the side of the boat on a 15 foot line for saftey stops, although you shouldnt need to use that. To add an octo to a pony doesnt seem like a very good idea. What if you had a three diver team? Would you have three second stages on the pony?

I haven't seen one. It was a question of keeping the octo on the main regularor or not, when using a pony.

 

[halocline]

You're probably better off ditching the pony and keeping the octo, maybe considering the modified long hose with bungied alternate.

Try to really think honestly about why you feel you need a pony to dive safely. If you're diving in situations that really might result in you being out of air, without buddy support, and unable to reach the surface by simply swimming, then I suspect a pony is not your answer, more technical/solo dive training and gear would be.

Pony tanks are 'feel good' devices IMO for recreational divers, and probably provide more of a feeling of added safety than any actual added safety. The only way to truly know if using one increases safety would be some sort of statistical analysis involving large groups of divers, some using a pony, others not, all diving in similar situations.

You mentioned your photography as a 'reason' for using a pony. I am guessing that you mean to imply that you either get distracted by taking photos to the extent that you either don't carefully monitor (or plan!) your gas usage, or don't keep good buddy diving behavior. If either one of those things is true, using a small additional tank is not likely to be the most effective way to increasing your safety; better dive behavior and situational awareness is.

Sorry, don't mean to be a preachy jerk; of course take into consideration the fact that I've never seen you dive so I can't pass any judgement on you personally. It's just that this topic comes up all the time and it's my opinion that many, many recreational divers substitute using a small pony for good dive practices and think they're being safe. So every once in a while I foolishly take the bait and jump in with an unpopular opinion.

 

[usub]

You're probably better off ditching the pony and keeping the octo, maybe considering the modified long hose with bungied alternate.

Try to really think honestly about why you feel you need a pony to dive safely. If you're diving in situations that really might result in you being out of air, without buddy support, and unable to reach the surface by simply swimming, then I suspect a pony is not your answer, more technical/solo dive training and gear would be.

Pony tanks are 'feel good' devices IMO for recreational divers, and probably provide more of a feeling of added safety than any actual added safety. The only way to truly know if using one increases safety would be some sort of statistical analysis involving large groups of divers, some using a pony, others not, all diving in similar situations.

You mentioned your photography as a 'reason' for using a pony. I am guessing that you mean to imply that you either get distracted by taking photos to the extent that you either don't carefully monitor (or plan!) your gas usage, or don't keep good buddy diving behavior. If either one of those things is true, using a small additional tank is not likely to be the most effective way to increasing your safety; better dive behavior and situational awareness is.

Sorry, don't mean to be a preachy jerk; of course take into consideration the fact that I've never seen you dive so I can't pass any judgement on you personally. It's just that this topic comes up all the time and it's my opinion that many, many recreational divers substitute using a small pony for good dive practices and think they're being safe. So every once in a while I foolishly take the bait and jump in with an unpopular opinion.

you are probably right in some of your suspicions.
I DO get distracted from keeping eye on my buddy, when photographing
and yes, its NOT good diving behavior. In fact it's more to be considered as solo diving in situations, though mutually agreed behavior when we both are doing photo. Nevertheless, air usage I do manage to monitor closely. (knowing how much the excitement of a good motive can increase one's air consumption)
The pony is not suppose to be 'extra air' to extend the dive. It's purely for the safety of having a independant redundant air supply in case of equipment failure, which I still don't believe an octo can replace.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You're probably better off ditching the pony and keeping the octo, maybe considering the modified long hose with bungied alternate.

Try to really think honestly about why you feel you need a pony to dive safely. If you're diving in situations that really might result in you being out of air, without buddy support, and unable to reach the surface by simply swimming, then I suspect a pony is not your answer, more technical/solo dive training and gear would be.

Pony tanks are 'feel good' devices IMO for recreational divers, and probably provide more of a feeling of added safety than any actual added safety. The only way to truly know if using one increases safety would be some sort of statistical analysis involving large groups of divers, some using a pony, others not, all diving in similar situations.

You mentioned your photography as a 'reason' for using a pony. I am guessing that you mean to imply that you either get distracted by taking photos to the extent that you either don't carefully monitor (or plan!) your gas usage, or don't keep good buddy diving behavior. If either one of those things is true, using a small additional tank is not likely to be the most effective way to increasing your safety; better dive behavior and situational awareness is.

Sorry, don't mean to be a preachy jerk; of course take into consideration the fact that I've never seen you dive so I can't pass any judgement on you personally. It's just that this topic comes up all the time and it's my opinion that many, many recreational divers substitute using a small pony for good dive practices and think they're being safe. So every once in a while I foolishly take the bait and jump in with an unpopular opinion.

Maybe so, but you sure sound like one to me.

You essentially "attack" the guy for having "bad behavoir" with no basis for it. Diving solo (or with a same-ocean-buddy) is nothing to apologize for, it is the way many thousands of people dive every day.

As long as the people involved plan for it and are equipped approrpiately, I see no problem with it and it is a very quick, very simple solution to the issue of scuba failure, as well as running low on air.

 

[halocline]

You essentially "attack" the guy for having "bad behavoir" with no basis for it. Diving solo (or with a same-ocean-buddy) is nothing to apologize for, it is the way many thousands of people dive every day.

I absolutely did not attack the guy, and if you learn to read a little better, maybe you'll understand what "take into consideration the fact that I've never seen you dive so I can't pass any judgement on you personally." means. That's exactly what I said.

You are correct that diving solo, when properly equipped and TRAINED, is nothing to apologize for. But it is quite a different thing than simply grabbing a pony bottle. If you think a pony bottle is a "very quick, very simple solution" to running low on air, you might want to consider some refresher training, particularly focusing on gas management.

A pony can be a nice convenience, possibly making it easier to have a leisurely, stress-free ascent in the extremely rare occasion of total gas loss due to failure, or to hand off to a OOA diver, but using one does not have any PROVEN safety benefit, and IMO (that's opinion, not fact) gives some divers a false sense of security which then allows them to feel comfortable diving in situations they otherwise would not.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I absolutely did not attack the guy, and if you learn to read a little better, maybe you'll understand what "take into consideration the fact that I've never seen you dive so I can't pass any judgement on you personally." means. That's exactly what I said.

You are correct that diving solo, when properly equipped and TRAINED, is nothing to apologize for. But it is quite a different thing than simply grabbing a pony bottle. If you think a pony bottle is a "very quick, very simple solution" to running low on air, you might want to consider some refresher training, particularly focusing on gas management.

A pony can be a nice convenience, possibly making it easier to have a leisurely, stress-free ascent in the extremely rare occasion of total gas loss due to failure, or to hand off to a OOA diver, but using one does not have any PROVEN safety benefit, and IMO (that's opinion, not fact) gives some divers a false sense of security which then allows them to feel comfortable diving in situations they otherwise would not.

still sounding like one.......

 

[diverrex]

You're probably better off ditching the pony and keeping the octo, maybe considering the modified long hose with bungied alternate.

Try to really think honestly about why you feel you need a pony to dive safely. If you're diving in situations that really might result in you being out of air, without buddy support, and unable to reach the surface by simply swimming, then I suspect a pony is not your answer, more technical/solo dive training and gear would be.

Pony tanks are 'feel good' devices IMO for recreational divers, and probably provide more of a feeling of added safety than any actual added safety. The only way to truly know if using one increases safety would be some sort of statistical analysis involving large groups of divers, some using a pony, others not, all diving in similar situations.

You mentioned your photography as a 'reason' for using a pony. I am guessing that you mean to imply that you either get distracted by taking photos to the extent that you either don't carefully monitor (or plan!) your gas usage, or don't keep good buddy diving behavior. If either one of those things is true, using a small additional tank is not likely to be the most effective way to increasing your safety; better dive behavior and situational awareness is.

Sorry, don't mean to be a preachy jerk; of course take into consideration the fact that I've never seen you dive so I can't pass any judgement on you personally. It's just that this topic comes up all the time and it's my opinion that many, many recreational divers substitute using a small pony for good dive practices and think they're being safe. So every once in a while I foolishly take the bait and jump in with an unpopular opinion.

Where I dive a redundant air source, pony or doubles, is standard for solo training, so your comment doesn't quite make sense. Many of us do dive solo or at least in not close proximity to our buddy (sorry if that offends your sense of how people should dive but that's the reality for many of us, particularly photographers) and a pony makes a lot of sense. In case of any type of sudden gear failure regarding air I'd much rather reach for my pony reg than have to get my buddy's octo. I don't always take my pony but do on deep dives or when I'm not sure who my buddy will be. I've never had to use my pony but on one dive a strong current came up mid dive and we were down current from the boat. As we were blowing through air swimming back to the boat I remember thinking I'm glad I have that extra air just in case. If I'm not mistaken certain boats in the northeast require a pony.

 

[halocline]

Where I dive a redundant air source, pony or doubles, is standard for solo training,...

Absolutely I agree. What a pony is not is a substitute for solo training. My argument against some-not all-pony use is that many divers strap one on and start solo (usually "de-facto" solo) diving.