Pony setup: Octopus or not ?

[usub]

I'm using a 3Liter pony setup with 1st and 2nd stage. Beside that I have my main regulator with first and 2nd stage + octopus.

As I would like to get rid of as much unneccesary stuff as possible, I'm considering if I need the octopus anymore. I'm able to supply air to my buddy in an emergency situation. As well as having an independant air souce for myself, in case anything happen to my main airsupply.

I would like to know, if others have the same considerations.
Perhaps there is situations I havent thought about, where it would still be good to have the octopus available, even I have the pony with me.

any thoughts and input are very much appreciated

 

[j2s]

What type/environment are you diving ????.....Are you using the pony for nitrox or just spare air ????

 

[rhwestfall]

Just my opinion here. The pony is NOT (as it should not be) a part of your gas management plan, your back gas is there for both you and your buddy and so you have a primary and AAS. AAS can be also for you if problems with the primary happen. The pony is (or should be) a stand alone independent element for "all bets are off". It can be for you, or handed off.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

ditch the octopus.... more trouble, more failure points, more chance of a free flow and minimal added safety.

 

[ianr33]

Are you going to put the octo back on your main reg every time you do a 30 foot dive without the pony?

Are you going to have the pony valve closed (takes longer to give buddy air in an emergency) or open (possibility of losing air without noticing)

I would keep the octo. (Actually I would keep a backup and breathe the long hose but that's another thread........)

In an emergency donate the octopus ,once everyone has calmed down hand over the pony if it makes sense to do so.

 

[AaronRiot]

It doesn't make sense to me, you've added safety with the pony....only to take safety away by removing your octo???

Are you using a long hose setup or the regular setup with your reg? Have you considered those BCD alternate airs? Is the octopus really that in the way that it warrants a loss in safety for the minor comfort benefit? Why not just ditch the pony, it's more cumbersome than the octo yes?

I personally would not remove it. I'm a novice still, but I'm sure after years of experience I probably still wouldn't.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

It doesn't make sense to me, you've added safety with the pony....only to take safety away by removing your octo???

Are you using a long hose setup or the regular setup with your reg? Have you considered those BCD alternate airs? Is the octopus really that in the way that it warrants a loss in safety for the minor comfort benefit? Why not just ditch the pony, it's more cumbersome than the octo yes?

I personally would not remove it. I'm a novice still, but I'm sure after years of experience I probably still wouldn't.

The pony should always have enough air in it to get you OR your buddy to the surface. It is for either person.

The problem with wearing 3 second stages is confusion. IF you sling your pony bottle, the second stage is straped down with a bungi and it is probably pressurized and turned off. IF you rig a pony like this, then there is much less chance for you to confuse second stages.

However, if you choose to back mount the pony, you will be dealing with 3 second stages. It is easy to get them confused. It is also more likely that one will freeflow without you notice it. The back mounted pony reg should be bungied around your neck where a second stage feeflow is hard to overlook. If you have a third second stage, where are you gonna clip it off?

What type of emergency, will having 3 second stages help with?

If three second stages is better, than why not take 4 second stages and be "more safe". You need to balance out the benefits and drawbacks of adding complexity to your gear and try to think of the probablity of various occurances..

I back mount my pony AND use an AIR 2.. so I guess I do have 3 second stages... but they would be very difficult to confuse with eachother.

 

[Hatul]

I sometimes dive with the pony (on the right side) and have to be careful it does not interfere with the octo which sits above the pony tank. That seems to be the main problem with having both. But if you decide to remove the octo you're committed to taking the pony on every dive or have the pain of removing and reattaching the octo.

 

[usub]

The reasons for using the pony is for the added safety that an octopus can't provide. Specially when doing a lot of UW photo as I do. If your buddy is doing the same thing, it's easy to slip too long away from each other.
My decission was reinforced last spring, when I had an experience with a free-flowing octpus that I was unable to stop. I was very low on air in a very short time. My buddy was within reach, but in case he wasn't, the pony was there. A good feeling. So dumpsterdiver, I agree with you 100% regarding added points of failure.
I'm using the pony back mounted (valve open) and so far I have had the pony 2nd stage clipped on to my left shoulder and the octo on the right. Its ok and it works, but it's cluttered, and can get in the way when I reach for my drysuit valve or inflator . If I decide to ditch the octo, I will move the pony 2nd stage to a necklase.
Remounting the octo for a shallow beach dive, is no issue for me.

But nevertheless, still not 100% sure what to do. Can any of you, think of a situation where it would add safety to have both the octo AND a pony ?

 

[DevonDiver]

When planning any sort of redundancy, you really need to question how many simultaneous issues you'll ever reasonably have to deal with. In that respect, the crux of your question is whether you need to plan to deal with 1 or 2 simultaneous OOA situations - you and your buddy..... or..... you or your buddy.

Personally, I don't think there's any need for a recreational diver to cater for more than one simultaneous issue. If a problem happens, it is dealt with, the dive is aborted and you have a short distance/time to the surface. If you believed that there was any reasonable risk that both divers would run out of air at the identical time - then you'd be far better advised to confront that risk mitigation by skills/awareness training, rather than equipment redundancy.

Assuming the both divers entered the water with near identical fills, there is a small chance that:

1) Both divers would remain completely unaware of their gas for the duration of the dive.

2) Both divers would have a near identical SAC, causing them to both run OOA at exactly the same time. It is reasonable to assume that there will be enough remaining gas for one diver to ascend with gas once the other had run out - i.e. 1-2 minutes of consumption variation.

In that respect, there's no reasonable requirement for two second stages on a pony cylinder. You are only catering towards the risk of a single diver running out of air at any given time.