pony bottles

[fire_diver]

"If what I say hurts your feelings maybe you need your feelings hurt if it makes you think." - scubalifer


Dude. Get over yourself. You didn't hurt any ones feelings. Your post was abstract, and nonsense. The only thing it did was make people ask "what the hell is that guy talking about?"

FD

 

[scubalifer]

I am over myself now. I am in my abstract period. I should have used a reference to certain things that are unsafe, very unsafe in previous posts. But I am not here to argue. I like playing the devil's advocate and stirring the pot to get some people thinking. Good luck with your diving.

 

[GLENFWB]

That's my two cents, at any rate. The pony bottle argument is circular and life is too short to invest another afternoon in the discussion. No offense, but there are some eagles congregating along the river and I'm going to spend the afternoon with them, instead of you primates.

As a new diver who was considering getting a pony bottle I have learned a great deal reading this thread. I appreciate those who have shared their position with passion. I think this thread has made me wiser and also saved me some money.

 

[Nemrod]

This thread, especially page 10, has some of the most perverted logic I have ever come across. Thanks, it is fun and illuminating to study the minds of "primates."

N<-----homo sapiens moderninski

 

[Skeeter1097]

I see one out of a hundred divers use a pone. I think that a lot of people have them but never yo-use them.
I have to say there is a time like ship penetration or cave diving.

 

[ClayJar]

For the record, references to "page numbers" don't work reliably. This thread has only made it to page three for me, and anyone else using something other than the default number of posts per page will also be paginated elsewise.

(Incidentally, using the maximum of 40 posts per page means I only have to suffer page loads 1/4 as often. It's quite nice, actually. Go to "User CP", click "Edit Options", scroll down to "Thread Display Options", and set "Number of Posts to Show Per Page" to any of the following: default, 5, 10, 20, 30, or 40. Even on a slow link, I use 40, as I just open the threads in tabs and read one while the next loads.)

 

[MikeFerrara]

I see one out of a hundred divers use a pone. I think that a lot of people have them but never yo-use them.
I have to say there is a time like ship penetration or cave diving.

A pony bottle wouldn't be considered an adequate redundant breathing system for cave diving and I wouldn't consider it adequate for any real wreck penetration either.

Dives in an overhead are planned based on thirds (or more conservative) and you need redundancy on that main supply.

In this country, manifolded doubles are probably the most common but independant doubles and sidemount (which are independant doubles as far as gas management) are also used.

I don't see the discussion as being about whether or not redundancy is needed. The question is when and what training and equipment options might be more useful than a pony.

If one looks at this thread without having their feelings hurt by thinking they are being bashed, I think it's pretty clear that an awful lot of divers who think they need a pony bottle are doing dives beyond their training/experience/comfort, maybe beyond the real capabilities of their other equipment and doing those dives in less than optimal ways. And no, this isn't bashing and I've made my share of diving mistakes which is exactly where this opinion comes from.

I really don't care how someone dives but I do get worried when I see all these newish divers getting in situations that concern them (and rightly so) and their first inclination is to get a pony bottle when there are so many other things they should be looking at. Those things, if not addressed, are likely to cause them trouble whether or not they have a pony bottle.

I don't want to see anyone with hurt feelings but it's better to be hurt here than at 120 on a wreck someplace. When divers are doing hosed up dives with hosed up equipment, adding a pony bottle may just hose it all up more. All else being good and equal, dragging a pony around probably won't do any harm, but all else is not good and it is not equal.

 

[Nemrod]

Why is it assumed that when a diver uses a pony they are diving beyond their skills and training but if that diver grabbed a set of doubles instead suddenly he is a Pro.

Not bashing anybody but this thread has reverse logic run amock, it simply makes no sense. I read some of these posts three times and still cannot figure out what is being said.

To the public at large, take note, on this board everybody dives full doubles for every dive with can lights and seven foot hoses, no, they don't use a pony so therefore asking for advice about their use from people who don't understand the concept is USELESS and only resilts in upside down logic and rationalization.

I have read numerous threads on rebreathers, seems they use ponys, are they diving beyond their skills and training?

N

 

[MikeFerrara]

Why is it assumed that when a diver uses a pony they are diving beyond their skills and training but if that diver grabbed a set of doubles instead suddenly he is a Pro.

I think you'd need to point to a specific case. Several dives have been used as examples in this thread. It isn't the pony bottle that leads me to believe that some of these divers are diving beyond their limits but rather the problems that they are having and the dives that they are having them on. While some of them view the pony bottle as a solution, others disagree.

Not bashing anybody but this thread has reverse logic run amock, it simply makes no sense. I read some of these posts three times and still cannot figure out what is being said.

I'm not sure which posts you're talking about but the fact that you couldn't figure it out isn't necessarily evidence that the logic is unsound.

To the public at large, take note, on this board everybody dives full doubles for every dive with can lights and seven foot hoses, no, they don't use a pony so therefore asking for advice about their use from people who don't understand the concept is USELESS and only resilts in upside down logic and rationalization.

Wow, that was a mouthful huh? I don't think that diving doubles is evidence that one doesn't understand the concept of a pony bottle. On the contrary, it may just be that they believe the concept to be flawed especially in the applications presented.

I have read numerous threads on rebreathers, seems they use ponys, are they diving beyond their skills and training?

You really think the use of OC bail out gas by a rebreather diver is the same thing?

 

[dave4868]

Why is it assumed that when a diver uses a pony they are diving beyond their skills and training but if that diver grabbed a set of doubles instead suddenly he is a Pro.
N

Good point.

I just joined and I've read carefully each post of this thread. Even when I didn't agree, I've been impressed with the value of the varied opinions presented in such civil fashion and with foundations laid.

Yes, I've come in from the Wilderness of Usenet.

I'm not surprised that some want to nurture and be a sensei to the less experienced. Their posts kept bringing up an image from the martial arts TV series, Kung **, of "Grasshopper" being chided and repeatedly encouraged to walk the rice paper again, this time without tearing it. In my imagination, "Grasshopper" says, "Hey, I'm just trying to walk to the bathroom, give it a rest. Honorable One!"

The original poster is right to think the pony will help with such problems as he encountered. He's not avoiding solving the other issues that experience, in time, will whittle down to size. It's very unlikely that he would increase his risk by using a pony. Quite the opposite.

I'm primarily a solo shore diver, to depths of 60 to 100' and I use a 120 cf main tank and 30 cf pony on every dive. I like long dives. If I've got a buddy, I still use the same rig. It provides options and flexibility with minimal added risk or trouble. IMHO.

Dave C