pony bottles

[grazie42]

I guess I better clarify my stance...
For the OP, someone who by his profile has between 25-49 dives, I honestly don´t think a pony is the solution to his problem. The situation that led him to think about getting a pony, once again IMO, would be better prevented by working on the causes rather than the symptoms of his "incident".

There are no absolutes, in anything, definetly not in diving (other than that **** will happen). My points aren´t really for/against diving solo either (except that I don´t think new divers should). I have nothing against ponys, I sometimes disagree with people´s rationale for using them but ponys, like all other tools are not inherently "bad" or "good".

ymmv

 

[hlsooner]

Dove this morning off of Miami Beach. Wreck at about 115'. I maxed my computer and came up to my safety stop as I was out of NDL time. Still had about 1200 psi and was planning on doing a nice long safety stop at 20'. Just as I was about to reach the stop, a diver comes up the line pretty quickly pounding his fist into his chest, signaling low on air. It took my brain a second to react, but then I handed him my octo, attached to a 30 cu ft. pony, and made sure he was going to be okay. After a nice five minute stop, we surfaced. Needless to say I made a new friend.

Could I have given the same help from an normal octo attached to my main tank, yes. However, it was nice to know that I could help him without depleting the gas I needed for my own stop.

 

[Central Fla]

I am not well experienced either, but to me this reasoning is not sound.

"someone who by his profile has between 25-49 dives, I honestly don´t think a pony is the solution to his problem. The situation that led him to think about getting a pony, once again IMO, would be better prevented by working on the causes rather than the symptoms of his "incident".

Does that mean that we have to be experienced to need a pony, should we wait until we are a proficient diver, then get safety gear?? Should the other reason to have a second air source be that we find the problem first then go for the solution?

 

[grazie42]

Originally posted by Central Fla
Does that mean that we have to be experienced to need a pony, should we wait until we are a proficient diver, then get safety gear?? Should the other reason to have a second air source be that we find the problem first then go for the solution?

It is agreed (by most anyway) that if you get a pony, you need to become proficient in deploying it for it to be of any use.

Because you only have a limited amount of time that you spend practising, some of that time will be spent practicing with the new pony which takes time away from practicing the things that may help you solve the problem rather than one of the symptoms. So instead of eliminating the problem you are eliminating ONE symptom (in the best case) while the problem and most of the symptoms remain and continue to endanger the newer diver (entanglement, buddy separation, uncontrolled ascents etc)...

Of course, you are welcome to disagree, this is just my opinion...

 

[SDAnderson]

Does that mean that we have to be experienced to need a pony, should we wait until we are a proficient diver, then get safety gear??

You mangled the question but, in short, yes. If you're diving deep enough or long enough that you need a pony bottle as safety gear, what you really need are the skills, knowledge and self-discipline that will make a pony bottle unnecessary.

Had I found myself in the same situation that hlsooner did this morning, I would have done exactly the same thing he did. That might not be the best thing for the LOA diver, however.

There is an old parable that says it's better to teach a man to fish than to feed him. In more modern terms, we say that sometimes what people need is a hand up, not a hand out. However it's said, my fear about the LOA diver in the example is that instead of learning from his mistakes he is likely to end up being the proud owner of a shiny new pony bottle.

He might be safer with a pony but not nearly as safe as he would be if he learned how to dive. Then, again, if he doesn't learn how to manage his gas and discipline himself, he won't be safer because he's carrying extra gas, he'll actually be able to put himself in even greater danger.

Technology is a wonderful thing - without it none of us would be diving. Reliance on it, without understanding the risks and liabilities that it creates, is dangerous however. For those with the experience and skills to manage them, I think pony bottles are an acceptable, if sub-optimal solution. That's OK, we can disagree and nobody gets hurt. For the new divers, however, you all really need to stay shallow and master yourselves before you start carrying around the double-edged sword called pony bottle.

That's my two cents, at any rate. The pony bottle argument is circular and life is too short to invest another afternoon in the discussion. No offense, but there are some eagles congregating along the river and I'm going to spend the afternoon with them, instead of you primates.

 

[Central Fla]

grazie42 / reefraff your experience level and your opinion both count, It was mean't (and I hope accepted) as a question from an inexperienced diver.

My reasoning for having one is not only spearfishing where people seperate, but that unexpected occaision where one is needed. I understand not getting into that position is the first priority, but things happen, like the story of the DM @ 120ft.

Do you dive a pony? what sort of "rut ro reorge" situations have happened to you?

 

[Scuba-Jay]

Well I've just spent half an hour reading through all the posts, and I'd venture to say that, up until around page 10, this was probably one of the most informative threads Ive come across on scubaboard, and thats saying something. Mix debate, add a healthy dash of real world experiences, stir in some calculations and opinions from 1000+ divers, and you get one hell of a thread! Thanks guys!!

 

[rjack321]

Reefraff, as the ex-owner of a 19cf pony -that was great! Worthy of sticky status. Have a shiny

 

[scubalifer]

You know, I have been sitting here thinking how to say what I want to say to come off like I am not bashing anyone, but then you can point the finger and say the word and get defensive. What I said was kind of tongue and cheek but kind of the truth. It is pretty simple that getting under water and acting stupid will get you killed and sometimes those around you. Experience and training will help prevent some accidents. Reading and posting on a cyber board is neither of those. It is just simple to me when I see someone acting as if they know more than they do, not just in this sport but in life in general, eventually bad things happen. Fate catches up with all of us somewhere down the road. All I am saying is if you have 20 dives under your belt stay shallow, get a lot more training, get REAL familiar with your gear without complicating matters, add tasks after you master what you have. If what I say hurts your feelings maybe you need your feelings hurt if it makes you think.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Could I have given the same help from an normal octo attached to my main tank, yes. However, it was nice to know that I could help him without depleting the gas I needed for my own stop.

Regardless of how you do it, you should always have enough gas to get another diver back on your gas from the furthest point (not just a safety stop) in the dave without having to cut any of your stops short.

For me, 115 ft is deep enough that I want redundancy. It's also deep enough that for a wreck dive that could be pretty close to a square profile, I'm probably not even going to bother planning it as a no-stop dive. I'd bring enough gas to make a dive of it and one decompression gas. I'd spend 45 minutes or so on the wreck and have redundancy and plenty of gas to share and/or do another dive on the way back in. I'd prefer my doubles but it would be a nice liesurely dive, long enough to be worth the charter fees and I'd have plenty of margin with regard to everything.

That's just how I'd do it. I hesitate to say this because I'll probably get accused of "bashing" but if you dive wrecks like that off a boat full of people diving them like I described, there's a really really good chance that no one is going to be coming up to you at your stop OOA.