Pony Bottles

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First, UP has a wealth of knowledge. His comments are sometimes pointed, but he is usually right.

The comments about air in a tire relate to the fact that Nitrox and/or trimix are more suitable gasses for diving than air.

Second, I think that the next size up from a 13 is a 19. Its too d*** small for safe ascents, IMHO. I tested one as follows. I went to the pony, returned to the line, fouled the hook and ascended at a safe rate while making safety stops. I ran out before I hit the surface.

Moreover, that test was done at a normal breathing rate. I suspect that if I had actually needed the pony, my rate would have gone through the roof and I would have run out earlier.

Those small bottles DO belong on a store shelf, IMHO, since they most probably won't perform their intended function of getting you to the surface.

I understand that pony's are an intermediate step between nothing and a full set of doubles. They have their place as it is somewhat disingenuous to tell someone to buy doubles. However, the size your proposing is a pacifier. It is comforting, but does nothing. In fact, it may be more dangerous than nothing if you try to rely upon it.

My sizing recommendation stands.

P.S. Why are you using a combination power inflator/octopus. Have you tried ascending from depth with it?

P.P.S. Consider your mounting choice. You have created an entanglement hazard. Sling mounting the bottle and using elastic fabric to hold the reg hose frees your arm, streamlines you and makes it possible to move/drop/replace the bottle if necessary.

Just my 0.02
 
Jim,

jpmorrison once bubbled...
:) ... why someone would say the air in a pony bottle belongs in tires or a pony bottle belongs in a store window.

I think there are two reasons:

1. In many instances ponies are undersized and can result in a false sense of security.

2. Many times I have heard this from divers with more experience, resources and or different circumstances that make diving with doubles or h-valves practical. They tend to forget that everyone doesn’t own their own.

Without intending disrespect in any way I would like to point put that you are heading down the path that generates this knee-jerk reaction. It seams as though you are picking the next size up from 13 cubic feet. What is your rational for this size?

For a pony to be a safe redundant air source I think that you need to do several things. First calculate the amount of air you would need to safely surface based on your diving profile. In my case to safely surface from 120 fsw I calculated a 30 cubic ft. pony. Secondly, practice it. Surfacing from 120 fsw in an out of air emergency is not the time to determine how well you did on your calculation. Practice first in a controlled environment such as a quarry.

I would also like to echo northeast’s recommendation to consider sling mounting. There are several advantages to it including being more streamlined, the ability to hand-off the pony, and the fact that the valve, SPG, and regulator are all right in front of you where they’re easy to see.

Mike
 
jpmorrison once bubbled...
I do believe that my pony is to small. I have a 13cf Al. I will switch to the next larger size

While NEWrecks and I disagree about how long a bottle will last, we do agree that bigger is better. I run a 19 cuft. If I was to do it again, I would have gone with a 30 or a 40. The cost difference for any size bottle is negligible, and a 40 can go much farther in your diving career... for use as a deco bottle if you go that direction.

Likewise I agree you should consider the sling mounting. It gives you many more options for sizes and allows you to be able to reach the valve easily, as well as allowing you to be able to easily remove it to hand to a buddy, or to clear out an entanglement...
 
Spectre once bubbled...


While NEWrecks and I disagree about how long a bottle will last, we do agree that bigger is better. I run a 19 cuft. If I was to do it again, I would have gone with a 30 or a 40. The cost difference for any size bottle is negligible, and a 40 can go much farther in your diving career... for use as a deco bottle if you go that direction.

Actually, its less a disagreement about the amount of time that you will get out of a bottle than what you will do once you deploy it. I believe that Spectre's model assumes an immediate ascent at a normal rate, while mine assumes that you won't be able or won't want to ascend immediately. By that, I mean that other factors, such as a need to return to the line, recover from whatever caused your back gas failure, gather your buddies or the rest of the dive party, may make it desirable to stay down for a couple of extra minutes.
 
Try mixing some fun into your diving JP. UP is a wealth of knowledge and deserves better treatment. Lighten up. JP: I understand some of your frustration. Many guys on this board dive large doubles with isolation manifolds & extra regs so they already have their backup air supply on their backs - Correct me if I'm wrong UP and others. I'm sure they will tell you about their stage bottle/pony bottle alternatives if you're doing more exotic Tek dives.

For many others where money or experience or preference prevent inclusion of doubles on vacation diving, a LARGE pony could be comforting if diving with strange buddies in far away lands. There are plenty of other threads that discuss this issue well. That said a good buddy with a low SAC rate is your best Pony tank - another reason to get your Significant Other involved in the sport.

It amazes me the wealth of knowledge that can be obtained from quietly and humbly requesting it here. There will always be divers here with strong views based on practical experience. Carrots & courtesy work here just as well as in the real world, particularly since the pay doesn't match the time & effort put in by so many Senior Members...
 
Spectre once bubbled...


If the pony bottle had to come out... then the buddy that wasn't there doesn't deserve gathering! :wink:


No matter how right you may be... I don't want to surface to find one of my brethren holding a summons and complaint because I didn't at least try to bring their loved one back.:upset:
 
If your diving air only an want to utilize a pony / bailout bottle i see no reason not to do so. The only real question is the size of the bailout. The diffence in price from a 15 cu ft tank and a 30 or 40 cu ft tank is minimal. If your gonna do i would get the 40 cu ft tank.

That being said, the only thing left now is how do you carry this bailout. I would guess that 85% + people on this board would say sling it on the left side like a stage or deco bottle. 85% + people cant be wrong, it just makes sense when it comes down to the adv vs. dis adv. There are alot of posts on how to rig such a tank and why this method is used by so many people, check them out.

Andy

I pefer the term bailout bottle, after all that is what your going to use it for.
 
I am almost afraid to reply or ask a question, but here goes. When I said I would go to the next size pony that was a generalized statement. I would definately go to a larger bottle after reading comments from the board. What I don't understand is why people think a pony would cause entanglement. would not doubles do the same? What is wrong with a regulator and inflator hose together? It is the same as a octo just more streamlined. Anyway just asking,I am
beginning to believe that the pony should be put to rest as he has had a hard 48 hours. There is definately to sides to this topic.

Thanks again
 

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