Pony bottle skills

[divad]

In case I end up leaning toward the route of a pony that I sling, I'd appreciate thoughts on that, too. Michael

If you sling it, you can carry it charged and off. You can also easily detach it underwater and on the boat.

 

[michaelp68]

Scary? Every major agency teaches diving to 130 ft (others cut it off at 80 or 100) without requireing a pony or any redundancy on OW no-stop dives. The methods taught for dealing with OOA/LOA emergencies are air sharring and controled emergency ascents. With adequate dive planning and adequate skills I think this works (although I think 130 is pushing things for a no-stop dive). What I find scary is that so many divers don't seem to have much confidance in these basic skills. The percieved need for a pony seems more rooted in a lack of proficiency in the basics of "buddy diving" and gas management.

There's no reason for an instructor to encourage redundancy for recreational no-stop dives and I'm certainly not aware of any training standards that require them to.

Certainly for dives in an overhead (real or virtual) other steps are needed but a pony doesn't cut it there either.

Mike, when you write about the perceived need of rec divers for a pony being rooted in a lack of proficiency . . . are you just stating a general view of the average rec diver with a pony? Do you think my perceived need for a pony is rooted in a lack of proficiency? What about the idea that the pony, or doubles, is a requirement of dive operators?

You also mention air sharing and controlled emergency assents as options for dealing with ooa/loa emergencies. I'm wondering how deep is too deep, realistically, for a cesa to be performed successfully. 80 feet? 100 feet? 120 feet? 130 feet? More? Less?

You also mention that there's no reason for an instructor to encourage redundancy for rec ndl dives. But I'm wondering if there's harm or risk from the redundancy, and if there's benefit from such redundancy.

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you on some of the things you've pointed out. I'm trying to understand what you think about these things. Thanks.

Michael

 

[wedivebc]

If you sling it, you can carry it charged and off. You can also easily detach it underwater and on the boat.

True and you can also pass it off to an OOA diver rather than be tethered to him.
I like the sling idea best. I use it for most dives.

 

[michaelp68]

After reading a number of the replies, I have to admit I hadn't thought very much about a sling for a pony before. That's an interesting option that I'll look at more seriously.

Michael

 

[MaxBottomtime]

This is all very interesting and informative.

Again, for some of you not familiar with this region, doubles or a pony are required for some of the dives that are within rec limits, from the coast of New Jersey on up through the coast of New England.

Doole, I'm not sure that such dive operator policies are arbitrary, and I'm also unconvinced that letting those rules prod me toward a pony or doubles is a no-no.

So, with all other issues of buddy skills and planned/unplanned needs aside, I'll need doubles or a pony if I want to go on some of these dives.

I imagine there are pros and cons to each, and so far I've heard a number of the cons for using a pony, and particulary a back mounted pony.

What about the pros of a back mounted pony, and any cons for the other options? I ask this so I can at least end up with an educated decision.

Also, IF I choose to go with a back mounted pony, what is the advice for maximizing safety while diving with it? I caught the spg recommendation and weight placement advice. Others?

In case I end up leaning toward the route of a pony that I sling, I'd appreciate thoughts on that, too.

IF I start leaning toward doubles, I'll probably start a new thread addressing doubles....

Thanks again for the thoughts so far.

Michael

The requirement of ponies or doubles is likely due to previous accidents or near accidents, not on any correct procedures taught by the various agencies. If divers followed their teaching, there would be no need for a pony. I don't believe there are any legitimate pros for back-mounting a pony. You've got a hose routing nightmare, difficult access to the valve, you may not notice if it leaks, can't hand it off in an emergency and since you are planning to dive wrecks it becomes a profile problem when trying to get through small openings. With isolated doubles you have more gas available than a single/pony combo. If a reg shuts down you still have access to all your gas. If a tank leaks, you can isolate it and breathe it down, saving the rest of the gas from the other tank. The only con is the isolator itself, which is another potential failure point, although extremely rare. If you still want to try using a pony, here's how you should rig it.

http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/stagebottle_rigging.html

 

[divad]

If you have to ask the question, have you considered that doubles will give you way more than enough air to allow you to get yourself in a ****ed-up situation?

 

[doole]

Doole, I'm not sure that such dive operator policies are arbitrary, and I'm also unconvinced that letting those rules prod me toward a pony or doubles is a no-no.
Michael

Well you may not be sure, but I am.

Do you honestly believe that they researched that issue and that somebody qualified to do so has ratified it?

Your point about the CESA is well taken, though. Not much of an option at any goodly depth, especially if it hasn't been practiced, and often.

But - scary? Pffft...

 

[divad]

After reading a number of the replies, I have to admit I hadn't thought very much about a sling for a pony before. That's an interesting option that I'll look at more seriously.

Michael

Even people who hate pony use will tell you to sling it, which is a resounding endorsement.

 

[michaelp68]

Even people who hate pony use will tell you to sling it, which is a resounding endorsement.

Sure sounds that way.

 

[OE2X]

Even people who hate pony use will tell you to sling it, which is a resounding endorsement.

I agree. I don't like the use of a pony bottle as I feel that in my normal diving with regular dive buddies it is not necessary. If I were to find myself on a charter that required one, so be it, I would sling a 40 cf.

One other idea about slinging a bottle: Should you go further with your diving where you need stage bottles or deco bottles, then you will sling these. If you are used to having a "pony bottle" slung, it won't be any issue for you to make the transition. One thing to keep in mind is that whatever you do technique wise, it should be a building block skill for future more difficult and demanding dives. A back mounted pony won't help you here. There's another reason why many of us here would recommend that you use a slung 40 instead of a 30 or a 19. The 40 will be used for deco diving and you won't have spent your money unnecessarily.