Pony bottle skills

[matt_unique]

On this last CESA point I half agree - there are smarter options. The rest is bollocks.

Mike's observations are astute.

Why would I be put into the position of having to defend the notion of planning the damn dive and managing your damn gas?

Some divers do tend to go through a stage of 'more is better'. Dive your pony for a while - I actually did myself, admittedly. You'll get over it.

Dive and gas planning is step 1 for sure. Doing what you can to have the gear/air to manage unplanned problems is part of any prudent dive planning process.

I use a pony for winter shore dives and doubles for boat dives.

Ha ha ha, to "get over it" as you describe would require me to forget experience, training, and basic common sense. Some arrogant and relatively inexperienced divers think they have all they need for any dive in a basic rig as long as they follow their plan. Hopefully you will get past this roadblock without consequence.

--Matt

 

[doole]

Well, mee-ow. Alright, alright - I'll agree to can the vitriol if you do.

So can we try this from the other end: what would be a typical example of one of these 'unplanned problems'?

 

[matt_unique]

Well, mee-ow. Alright, alright - I'll agree to can the vitriol if you do.

So can we try this from the other end: what would be a typical example of one of these 'unplanned problems'?

"Saucer of Milk table 2 please" - Austin Powers

OK

Your question represents the paradox. There are no typical examples of an unplanned need. An example of an unplanned need, relating to the benefit of a pony, could include tank o-ring failure. You are just about to begin your ascent and your tank o-ring blows. You prudently watch your gauge as you begin a controlled ascent. In the back of your mind you know you have several options for a backup plan including the ability to switch to your pony if your air supply is insufficent for the ascent and safety stop. You have just helped your situation with the piece of mind in knowing you have a backup air supply less than 12" from your mouth. The rate of flow is such that you find you cannot complete your safety stop. No sweat, you reach down and grab your pony reg and complete your safety stop.

There are endless examples that we could both suggest. Entanglement would be another example. There are many solutions to a problem and the pony should never replace knowledge, practice, and training in other methods. The pony should be used as an added solution option.

--Matt

 

[doole]

Are we talking about solo diving, here?? That WOULD explain a lot - to me, anyway.

 

[matt_unique]

Are we talking about solo diving, here?? That WOULD explain a lot - to me, anyway.

Not specific to solo diving. The help of a buddy would be one of the possible solutions to unplanned problems I mentioned before. No buddy offers a regulator within 1 foot of your mouth that you can reach with your eyes closed for example.

 

[Web Monkey]

Seems a little that you're letting a dive boat's arbitrary rules dictate your style, which to me would be a no-no.

Even a bad buddy is a buddy. The only thing they could do that would terminate your dive would be to disappear, and so be it. If and when you find yourself alone, terminate the dive.

Bad buddies tend to disappear with great regularity.

If you have a random "boat buddy" you also have no idea if/when they spare 2nd stage (octo/Air-2) has been serviced, or if they've hoovered all their air down and don't have enough to share.

I always dive with a pony (slung in front).

The worst that can happen is that someone will think I'm a dumbass for not doing things their way, however the up-side is that I *KNOW* what's in the tank, how long it will last, and when the reg was last serviced and tested/used.

Why do think a pony is necessary anyway? Even if you blow an o-ring or something at 80 feet, you'll still have time to get to the surface. What are 'unplanned needs'?

Just plan your needs and life could be a LOT simpler.

It's hard to plan a free-flow or blown o-ring.

Would you rather have a emergency ascent from 100+ feet , with all the associated risks, or would you prefer to mug your buddy for his reg and find out that now you're both out of air, or would you prefer to just switch to your pony reg and do a normal ascent, including a 2 - 5 minute safety stop.

I choose the last one.

PS. If anybody is thinking about getting a pony, make sure you get a full-size pressure gauge (a 6" hose works nicely), since the little button gauges are pretty much unreadable underwater)

Terry

 

[michaelp68]

Are we talking about solo diving, here?? That WOULD explain a lot - to me, anyway.

Why would only solo divers benefit from this and not a broader spectrum of rec divers making deeper dives?

I understand Mike Ferrara's points that the extra option could be a patch for bad skills and planning or that it might contribute to a potential task overload situation.

But, as I believe Mike pointed out, that shouldn't be an issue if the diver practices good dive planning, hones good skills and practices with the pony so that it's not some foreign complication in an emergency, but rather an "option" included in the mental and muscle memory for an emergency.

I understand that some of you have of course seen lots that I haven't, such as divers with poor/sub-par skills or confidence, perhaps believing that the possession of a pony makes it all better.

From my point of view, I probably wouldn't consider the pony if it wasn't required for some dives around here. But now that the requirement of a pony for some dives has prodded me toward buying one, it sure seems like prudent redundancy and a reasonable 'extra option' as long as its possession and use is within the diver's skill set and its use is practiced like everything else.

All of this has been very informative and I've learned quite a bit that I'd never even considered before.

I hope the discussion continues because it continues to educate.

Michael

 

[doole]

Not specific to solo diving. The help of a buddy would be one of the possible solutions to unplanned problems I mentioned before. No buddy offers a regulator within 1 foot of your mouth that you can reach with your eyes closed for example.

I teach that if you're more than one full breath away from your buddy, then you're diving solo - and I don't teach diving solo. If they were to close their eyes, I might smack'em on the head and tell them to quit it.

I also teach that you need to dive with buddies you can trust.

Solves any problem that I can think of, and solves it within the system - and without spending more money.

 

[doole]

If anybody is thinking about getting a pony, make sure you get a full-size pressure gauge (a 6" hose works nicely), since the little button gauges are pretty much unreadable underwater)

I don't even know about that. Who cares how much air is in it? If you've put yourself into a position where you need it and there isn't enough in there, it doesn't matter anyway, 'cause y'ain't never gonna need it no more!

 

[MaxBottomtime]

From my point of view, I probably wouldn't consider the pony if it wasn't required for some dives around here. But now that the requirement of a pony for some dives has prodded me toward buying one, it sure seems like prudent redundancy and a reasonable 'extra option' as long as its possession and use is within the diver's skill set and its use is practiced like everything else.Michael

As you mentioned before, the boat requires a pony or doubles for the dives you want to make. As someone who has been making mostly wreck dives for the past decade, I can guarantee that you will begin using doubles if you continue diving wrecks. They're more streamlined than carrying a pony and have a lot more gas available in case of an emergency. For the same price of a pony you can get bands and an isolation manifold. You have a choice of carrying gear on every dive that you will use and can also be used in an emergency or carrying gear(pony) and hoping to never use it. I try not to take anything with me that I won't use. One of my buddies always looked like a floating dive shop underwater. He had redundant gear for nearly everything, including two consoles and computers. I used to ask him why he carried so much crap when we were making the same dive. He said that's the way he was taught in the early 80s. I explained to him that I had options for nearly any emergency with only a set of doubles and a single spg, but he didn't want to admit that he spent a lot of money on unnecessary gear.