Pony bottle skills

[doole]

>> A bad buddy may be exponentially worse than no buddy.

True. So dive with good buddies.

>> Terminating a dive from 80' with no air is worse than doing it with a pony and safety stop.

Also true, but why in God's name would you wait until there's no air?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Like flying to a dive location making the 130 a bit of a problem.

If there are equipment restrictions because of flying or whatever then additional up-front planning might be called for to insure that you have the equipment you want for the dives you're going to do. To each their own but if it isn't practical for me to get the equipment I want to the place I want to dive then I may very well opt to dive someplace else.

And then compound that with an assigned dive buddy of questionable reliability. The yellow buddy may not be a bad option then.

I don't let any one "assign me a buddy". Always when diving with some one new the best practice is to start with an easy dive and work your way up in difficulty.

If you jump right into to big a dive with a unknown buddy redundancy may allow you to survive but what about the buddy? Maybe he dies and that will likely ruin your trip anyway. It's not worth it to me. I'd rather be somplace else diving (or even not diving).

The choice to dive with or without optimal equipment...without an appropriate buddy...or with any other handicaps just because you "paid" or "traveled" is a good way to find more trouble or agrivation than fun.

I doubt a pony bottle is enough to make things turn out really right when everything else was done wrong.

I deploy the reg and breath from my pony every day that I carry it. Parachutes should be checked often.

So...you get a small leak in a pony system that's backmounted and on. even if it worked on the boat it might be empty when you need it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I like that configuration too, and have dived with it - but I do find the resulting modern art sculpture of the valve a wee bit of a kelp magnet, and not so streamlined.

And not great for travelling, unless the dive op doesn't mind you taking their tanks apart.

I can't say that I ever tried it in kelp...though I would love to. But, with one valve knob pointing to the side as with a single valve and the other streight up as an isolator on a set of doubles I don't see it being anywhere near the nightmare of a backmounted pony as an entanglement issue. I can easily reach back and untangle anything that does get tangled on my valve. The valves are more or less tucked behind your head when you're horizontal and looking forward anyway so it shouldn't happen too often. I'd think you'd get the kelp wrapped around your face first. LOL

 

[matt_unique]

...

Why do think a pony is necessary anyway? Even if you blow an o-ring or something at 80 feet, you'll still have time to get to the surface. What are 'unplanned needs'?

Just plan your needs and life could be a LOT simpler.

I have to say it is scary to hear this from an instructor who would be imparting similar ideas upon new divers. What are unplanned needs? The reason why we use safety and redundant equipment while scuba diving.

 

[divad]

>> A bad buddy may be exponentially worse than no buddy.

True. So dive with good buddies.

>> Terminating a dive from 80' with no air is worse than doing it with a pony and safety stop.

Also true, but why in God's name would you wait until there's no air?

A good-on-the-boat-pickup-buddy is a luxury. Its nice when you can get it, but not something to count on.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I have to say it is scary to hear this from an instructor who would be imparting similar ideas upon new divers. What are unplanned needs? The reason why we use safety and redundant equipment while scuba diving.

Scary? Every major agency teaches diving to 130 ft (others cut it off at 80 or 100) without requireing a pony or any redundancy on OW no-stop dives. The methods taught for dealing with OOA/LOA emergencies are air sharring and controled emergency ascents. With adequate dive planning and adequate skills I think this works (although I think 130 is pushing things for a no-stop dive). What I find scary is that so many divers don't seem to have much confidance in these basic skills. The percieved need for a pony seems more rooted in a lack of proficiency in the basics of "buddy diving" and gas management.

There's no reason for an instructor to encourage redundancy for recreational no-stop dives and I'm certainly not aware of any training standards that require them to.

Certainly for dives in an overhead (real or virtual) other steps are needed but a pony doesn't cut it there either.

 

[MikeFerrara]

A good-on-the-boat-pickup-buddy is a luxury. Its nice when you can get it, but not something to count on.

Patient... "Doc, it hurts when I do this."

Doc..."Then don't do it"

Ever have a stick that no matter how many time you cut it was still too short?

 

[divad]

Ever have a stick that no matter how many time you cut it was still too short?

Its not just a job.......

 

[michaelp68]

This is all very interesting and informative.

Again, for some of you not familiar with this region, doubles or a pony are required for some of the dives that are within rec limits, from the coast of New Jersey on up through the coast of New England.

Doole, I'm not sure that such dive operator policies are arbitrary, and I'm also unconvinced that letting those rules prod me toward a pony or doubles is a no-no.

So, with all other issues of buddy skills and planned/unplanned needs aside, I'll need doubles or a pony if I want to go on some of these dives.

I imagine there are pros and cons to each, and so far I've heard a number of the cons for using a pony, and particulary a back mounted pony.

What about the pros of a back mounted pony, and any cons for the other options? I ask this so I can at least end up with an educated decision.

Also, IF I choose to go with a back mounted pony, what is the advice for maximizing safety while diving with it? I caught the spg recommendation and weight placement advice. Others?

In case I end up leaning toward the route of a pony that I sling, I'd appreciate thoughts on that, too.

IF I start leaning toward doubles, I'll probably start a new thread addressing doubles....

Thanks again for the thoughts so far.

Michael

 

[MikeFerrara]

Really every one. So you go on a charter or resort boat and get assigned a lousy buddy. Then lets say that things go south because of your poorly skilled buddy who shouldn't be on that dive in the first place. Maybe your pony bottle or your rabits foot saves your bacon but what about the lousy buddy? It doesn't sound like much of a vacation to me.

There are all kinds of angles we can use to argue the merits of a pony bottle, solo diving or whatever but I don't see any justification for diving with some one if you have doubts about their ability to perform on the dive. I sure don't see where it should be the driving factor in other decisions. The mistakes just keep adding up.