Pompano Beach Fatality Sunday April 16th

[ScubaWithTurk]

I just wanted to state that I have many dives with SFDHQ and have been on the Black Pearl (arrrrrrr). I have seen the utmost professionalism from the team and a high level of safety when on these trips. I would have never taken my students on their vessels if I did not believe they were safe.

Just my experience.

 

[TravelGas]

One bad decision by a skipper of questionable skills and/or competence doesn't mean every dive accident in SE Florida is the fault of this particular dive charter who employes many boat captains.

The unfortunate incident that is the subject of this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with a boat sink due to an improper tie-in.

{Mod edit}

Try that logic with your auto insurance carrier after you have had a pattern of tickets and accidents with fatalities and see if you can even get insurance and if you can, certainly will be at a higher premium than other operators who have a clean safety record.

If SFDHQ past record has nothing to whatsoever to do with the future, then why do they keep renaming their vessels after each sinking / fatal incident...

 

[Catito]

One bad decision by a skipper of questionable skills and/or competence doesn't mean every dive accident in SE Florida is the fault of this particular dive charter who employes many boat captains.

The unfortunate incident that is the subject of this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with a boat sink due to an improper tie-in.

{Mod edit}

All I know is…I dove with them once. It was terrible and I did not feel safe—my buddy and I agreed “One and done.” Not willing to go back to see if I feel safer next go around.

 

[tekkydiver]

Oh right, it must be their fault in some way and they go and cover it up.

Of course you know how the name change to the Black Pearl came about?? Wasn't it the Coral Princess....

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

The A&I Forum exists for discussion of the potential causes of (for example) the accident(s) noted above.
Discussion of the quality of various dive boat operations in general, as opposed to specific dive operator actions that may have had an impact on the incidents in this thread, belongs in a separate thread, perhaps in the Thumbs Down Forum.

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[Umpman]

A

 

[kensuf]

There's no "shut lid", simply a bunch of unknowns at this point and a bunch of stunned and shocked friends that are trying to make sense of it all. What we know is that for whatever reason, our friend lost consciousness on the descent at a depth of approximately 180' and the people he was diving with made a valiant effort to get him to the surface and save his life.

Was the root cause hyperoxia, hypoxia, or a medical event? We do not know at this point.

I've known Joe for almost 30 years, we talked at least once a week on the phone about everything from jokes to cave diving to deep reef/wreck diving to just family stuff. I am confident that Joe would have wanted any information out there that would lead to an improvement in diver safety, that will be honored.

I'm closing the loop on this because I said I would.

This morning I received a call that the coroner has notified family members with the results of the autopsy. I was told that Joe passed away from heart failure that was brought on by aortic stenosis. It could have happened while he was driving on the highway or laying in bed.

Joe is missed by his friends. Several times over the past two months I've wanted to just pick up the phone and talk stupid **** with him. RIP.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I'm closing the loop on this because I said I would.

This morning I received a call that the coroner has notified family members with the results of the autopsy. I was told that Joe passed away from heart failure that was brought on by aortic stenosis. It could have happened while he was driving on the highway or laying in bed.

Joe is missed by his friends. Several times over the past two months I've wanted to just pick up the phone and talk stupid **** with him. RIP.

Thank you for sharing this with us. He is deeply missed by many. I'm thankful the family has some closure.

 

[doctormike]

I'm closing the loop on this because I said I would.

This morning I received a call that the coroner has notified family members with the results of the autopsy. I was told that Joe passed away from heart failure that was brought on by aortic stenosis. It could have happened while he was driving on the highway or laying in bed.

Joe is missed by his friends. Several times over the past two months I've wanted to just pick up the phone and talk stupid **** with him. RIP.

Hey, Ken…

Thanks so much for the closure and that information. My condolences to you for your personal loss, and to the community of people who knew him.

I would be remiss as a medical mod if I didn’t take this opportunity to respond to one thing that you said - please understand that this is a general point and not necessarily about Joe’s particular case. It’s just something that I always feel the need to push back on in these threads, since the point is learning, not legal deposition. I have a problem with the idea that an outcome would have been the same on the surface as it would be underwater.

Yes, although typically aortic stenosis presents as a progressive heart failure with escalating symptoms over time (shortness of breath, lightheadedness, leg swelling, etc..) in rare cases the first presenting sign can be sudden death. And if that’s the case, then your point stands, that this could have happened anywhere, and resuscitation would have likely been unsuccessful even if it happened in the parking lot of a hospital. I don’t know if you know if Joe knew that he had this condition, or at what stage it was at the time of the dive.

But speaking as someone who dives with medical conditions, it’s important to always remember that the underwater environment is not normal, and that the majority of cardiac complications that don’t involve sudden death CAN be treated if medical attention is rapidly available. That even brief, non-lethal cardiac conditions like syncope can easily become fatal underwater.

So with respect to the larger points made earlier about the benefits of surface support, etc… I don’t think that the take home message here should be that rapid medical attention wouldn’t help in many cases, even for a person with something like aortic stenosis.

Thanks again for the followup.

 

[kensuf]

Hey, Ken…

Thanks so much for the closure and that information. My condolences to you for your personal loss, and to the community of people who knew him.

I would be remiss as a medical mod if I didn’t take this opportunity to respond to one thing that you said - please understand that this is a general point and not necessarily about Joe’s particular case. It’s just something that I always feel the need to push back on in these threads, since the point is learning, not legal deposition. I have a problem with the idea that an outcome would have been the same on the surface as it would be underwater.

Yes, although typically aortic stenosis presents as a progressive heart failure with escalating symptoms over time (shortness of breath, lightheadedness, leg swelling, etc..) in rare cases the first presenting sign can be sudden death. And if that’s the case, then your point stands, that this could have happened anywhere, and resuscitation would have likely been unsuccessful even if it happened in the parking lot of a hospital. I don’t know if you know if Joe knew that he had this condition, or at what stage it was at the time of the dive.

But speaking as someone who dives with medical conditions, it’s important to always remember that the underwater environment is not normal, and that the majority of cardiac complications that don’t involve sudden death CAN be treated if medical attention is rapidly available. That even brief, non-lethal cardiac conditions like syncope can easily become fatal underwater.

So with respect to the larger points made earlier about the benefits of surface support, etc… I don’t think that the take home message here should be that rapid medical attention wouldn’t help in many cases, even for a person with something like aortic stenosis.

Thanks again for the followup.

Hey Mike,

I'm literally about to load up my car with luggage to head to the airport for a DD trip to Bikini. This will likely be my last post on scubaboard for a bit.

My statement about how it could have happened on the highway or in his bed was regarding the heart failure, it was not related to the ultimate outcome being his death. Most of us probably know someone that has survived a heart attack or stroke while on dry land and it shouldn't take an MD to understand that being underwater makes the chances of survival from such an event that much slimmer.

Keep in mind, my first post in this thread was a reply after several post insinuating that his friends were trying to cover up the situation either due to diver error or rebreather error.

I won't disagree with any of the follow-up discussion in this thread regarding recommendations for having surface support, avoiding split drops, etc. I think there was actually some good discussions in this thread.

Personally, I'm not a fan of split drops, I understand how they came to be, but I'm one that believes if a person were to review accident files they will notice that most of the issues happen at the beginning or end of the dive, not when the person gets on the bottom and everything has settled down. Accident files seem to be littered with statements such as "I lost sight of him when we began our descent" or "I last saw him when I was at my 20 foot stop". As such, at the very least keeping a boat on site during the first ~10 minutes of any dive and during the decompression seems like a modest proposal towards sound safe diving practices.

Any rate, as I said, my bags are packed, I've got a car to load and a plane to catch. Be safe, have fun.

Ken

 

[doctormike]

Hey Mike,

I'm literally about to load up my car with luggage to head to the airport for a DD trip to Bikini. This will likely be my last post on scubaboard for a bit.

My statement about how it could have happened on the highway or in his bed was regarding the heart failure, it was not related to the ultimate outcome being his death. Most of us probably know someone that has survived a heart attack or stroke while on dry land and it shouldn't take an MD to understand that being underwater makes the chances of survival from such an event that much slimmer.

Keep in mind, my first post in this thread was a reply after several post insinuating that his friends were trying to cover up the situation either due to diver error or rebreather error.

I won't disagree with any of the follow-up discussion in this thread regarding recommendations for having surface support, avoiding split drops, etc. I think there was actually some good discussions in this thread.

Personally, I'm not a fan of split drops, I understand how they came to be, but I'm one that believes if a person were to review accident files they will notice that most of the issues happen at the beginning or end of the dive, not when the person gets on the bottom and everything has settled down. Accident files seem to be littered with statements such as "I lost sight of him when we began our descent" or "I last saw him when I was at my 20 foot stop". As such, at the very least keeping a boat on site during the first ~10 minutes of any dive and during the decompression seems like a modest proposal towards sound safe diving practices.

Any rate, as I said, my bags are packed, I've got a car to load and a plane to catch. Be safe, have fun.

Ken

Dive safe, Ken...

And - as always - thanks for all that you do here for the community!