Pompano Beach Fatality Sunday April 16th

[kensuf]

There's no "shut lid", simply a bunch of unknowns at this point and a bunch of stunned and shocked friends that are trying to make sense of it all. What we know is that for whatever reason, our friend lost consciousness on the descent at a depth of approximately 180' and the people he was diving with made a valiant effort to get him to the surface and save his life.

Was the root cause hyperoxia, hypoxia, or a medical event? We do not know at this point.

I've known Joe for almost 30 years, we talked at least once a week on the phone about everything from jokes to cave diving to deep reef/wreck diving to just family stuff. I am confident that Joe would have wanted any information out there that would lead to an improvement in diver safety, that will be honored.

I'm closing the loop on this because I said I would.

This morning I received a call that the coroner has notified family members with the results of the autopsy. I was told that Joe passed away from heart failure that was brought on by aortic stenosis. It could have happened while he was driving on the highway or laying in bed.

Joe is missed by his friends. Several times over the past two months I've wanted to just pick up the phone and talk stupid **** with him. RIP.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I'm closing the loop on this because I said I would.

This morning I received a call that the coroner has notified family members with the results of the autopsy. I was told that Joe passed away from heart failure that was brought on by aortic stenosis. It could have happened while he was driving on the highway or laying in bed.

Joe is missed by his friends. Several times over the past two months I've wanted to just pick up the phone and talk stupid **** with him. RIP.

Thank you for sharing this with us. He is deeply missed by many. I'm thankful the family has some closure.

 

[doctormike]

I'm closing the loop on this because I said I would.

This morning I received a call that the coroner has notified family members with the results of the autopsy. I was told that Joe passed away from heart failure that was brought on by aortic stenosis. It could have happened while he was driving on the highway or laying in bed.

Joe is missed by his friends. Several times over the past two months I've wanted to just pick up the phone and talk stupid **** with him. RIP.

Hey, Ken…

Thanks so much for the closure and that information. My condolences to you for your personal loss, and to the community of people who knew him.

I would be remiss as a medical mod if I didn’t take this opportunity to respond to one thing that you said - please understand that this is a general point and not necessarily about Joe’s particular case. It’s just something that I always feel the need to push back on in these threads, since the point is learning, not legal deposition. I have a problem with the idea that an outcome would have been the same on the surface as it would be underwater.

Yes, although typically aortic stenosis presents as a progressive heart failure with escalating symptoms over time (shortness of breath, lightheadedness, leg swelling, etc..) in rare cases the first presenting sign can be sudden death. And if that’s the case, then your point stands, that this could have happened anywhere, and resuscitation would have likely been unsuccessful even if it happened in the parking lot of a hospital. I don’t know if you know if Joe knew that he had this condition, or at what stage it was at the time of the dive.

But speaking as someone who dives with medical conditions, it’s important to always remember that the underwater environment is not normal, and that the majority of cardiac complications that don’t involve sudden death CAN be treated if medical attention is rapidly available. That even brief, non-lethal cardiac conditions like syncope can easily become fatal underwater.

So with respect to the larger points made earlier about the benefits of surface support, etc… I don’t think that the take home message here should be that rapid medical attention wouldn’t help in many cases, even for a person with something like aortic stenosis.

Thanks again for the followup.

 

[kensuf]

Hey, Ken…

Thanks so much for the closure and that information. My condolences to you for your personal loss, and to the community of people who knew him.

I would be remiss as a medical mod if I didn’t take this opportunity to respond to one thing that you said - please understand that this is a general point and not necessarily about Joe’s particular case. It’s just something that I always feel the need to push back on in these threads, since the point is learning, not legal deposition. I have a problem with the idea that an outcome would have been the same on the surface as it would be underwater.

Yes, although typically aortic stenosis presents as a progressive heart failure with escalating symptoms over time (shortness of breath, lightheadedness, leg swelling, etc..) in rare cases the first presenting sign can be sudden death. And if that’s the case, then your point stands, that this could have happened anywhere, and resuscitation would have likely been unsuccessful even if it happened in the parking lot of a hospital. I don’t know if you know if Joe knew that he had this condition, or at what stage it was at the time of the dive.

But speaking as someone who dives with medical conditions, it’s important to always remember that the underwater environment is not normal, and that the majority of cardiac complications that don’t involve sudden death CAN be treated if medical attention is rapidly available. That even brief, non-lethal cardiac conditions like syncope can easily become fatal underwater.

So with respect to the larger points made earlier about the benefits of surface support, etc… I don’t think that the take home message here should be that rapid medical attention wouldn’t help in many cases, even for a person with something like aortic stenosis.

Thanks again for the followup.

Hey Mike,

I'm literally about to load up my car with luggage to head to the airport for a DD trip to Bikini. This will likely be my last post on scubaboard for a bit.

My statement about how it could have happened on the highway or in his bed was regarding the heart failure, it was not related to the ultimate outcome being his death. Most of us probably know someone that has survived a heart attack or stroke while on dry land and it shouldn't take an MD to understand that being underwater makes the chances of survival from such an event that much slimmer.

Keep in mind, my first post in this thread was a reply after several post insinuating that his friends were trying to cover up the situation either due to diver error or rebreather error.

I won't disagree with any of the follow-up discussion in this thread regarding recommendations for having surface support, avoiding split drops, etc. I think there was actually some good discussions in this thread.

Personally, I'm not a fan of split drops, I understand how they came to be, but I'm one that believes if a person were to review accident files they will notice that most of the issues happen at the beginning or end of the dive, not when the person gets on the bottom and everything has settled down. Accident files seem to be littered with statements such as "I lost sight of him when we began our descent" or "I last saw him when I was at my 20 foot stop". As such, at the very least keeping a boat on site during the first ~10 minutes of any dive and during the decompression seems like a modest proposal towards sound safe diving practices.

Any rate, as I said, my bags are packed, I've got a car to load and a plane to catch. Be safe, have fun.

Ken

 

[doctormike]

Hey Mike,

I'm literally about to load up my car with luggage to head to the airport for a DD trip to Bikini. This will likely be my last post on scubaboard for a bit.

My statement about how it could have happened on the highway or in his bed was regarding the heart failure, it was not related to the ultimate outcome being his death. Most of us probably know someone that has survived a heart attack or stroke while on dry land and it shouldn't take an MD to understand that being underwater makes the chances of survival from such an event that much slimmer.

Keep in mind, my first post in this thread was a reply after several post insinuating that his friends were trying to cover up the situation either due to diver error or rebreather error.

I won't disagree with any of the follow-up discussion in this thread regarding recommendations for having surface support, avoiding split drops, etc. I think there was actually some good discussions in this thread.

Personally, I'm not a fan of split drops, I understand how they came to be, but I'm one that believes if a person were to review accident files they will notice that most of the issues happen at the beginning or end of the dive, not when the person gets on the bottom and everything has settled down. Accident files seem to be littered with statements such as "I lost sight of him when we began our descent" or "I last saw him when I was at my 20 foot stop". As such, at the very least keeping a boat on site during the first ~10 minutes of any dive and during the decompression seems like a modest proposal towards sound safe diving practices.

Any rate, as I said, my bags are packed, I've got a car to load and a plane to catch. Be safe, have fun.

Ken

Dive safe, Ken...

And - as always - thanks for all that you do here for the community!

 

[boulderjohn]

I tuned into this thread for the first time in a while because I heard Ken had posted the cause of death, and I want to thank him for doing it. All who knew Joe are just crushed by his passing.

While catching up on the thread, I saw some references to past SFDH accidents, and I thought I would take a moment and give some details of those two incidents.

1. Quite a while ago (10 years maybe?) the Black Pearl was named the Coral Princess. It is a twin hulled Corinthian, a large, wide, flatbottomed boat. It was coming in through the Hillsboro inlet when it was hit diagonally from behind by a massive rogue wave. It picked up one back corner, causing gear and people to tumble to the other front corner. I think this is called a pitchpole (or something like that), with the new weight on the front pushing that corner into the water while the opposite side is rising up rapidly. It flipped the boat. A passenger was killed.

2. A couple years ago, another of their boats, the Safari Diver, was doing a wreck dive. This was a single hulled wooden boat, very rocky, with an open back covered by a transom when in motion. It followed the normal practice of all such boats in that area of dropping the DM into the water to secure the line. The DM then ascends and the line is temporarily tied off to the stern. The DM then gives the briefing, the divers jump in, and the line is retied to the bow. I hated this boat and did all I could do to avoid it in part because during the phase before jumping in, the transom was removed and water always washed over the stern and onto the deck. On this occasion, that washing was apparently greater than normal, probably because of a strong current, and the boat took on water and sank rapidly.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wanted to make a comment on the use of split drops, which I have seen with SFDH. The reason for it, in least in the times I am there (winters), is a sharp reduction in diving activity in that region. They have three boats, and they advertise three dives. People sign up for those dives. When the total numbers are in and there aren't a lot of divers, they combine the people who signed up for the dives onto one boat and do the split dive.

I agree it is not a safe practice, but the problem is there is not a lot of choice for local divers. It is nearly that or nothing. There used to be more boats in the area, and there were more divers to go on them. A few years ago, Joe would have probably done that dive off of the Sea Siren with Pompano Dive Center, and he would have gone down a line to the Lowrance, with the boat staying there on the surface. (I did exactly such a dive with him years ago.) Pompano Dive center is gone now, and there are so little tech diving going on there that I have decided I won't even bring my tech gear next winter.

 

[Nick_Radov]

I agree it is not a safe practice, but the problem is there is not a lot of choice for local divers. It is nearly that or nothing.

While I haven't dived in that area recently, I am skeptical about the lack of choice. My understanding is that there are a number of 6-pack charter boats in the area which typically cater to fishermen but will also take divers out on request. Just get together with a few buddies and hire one of those for the day, they'll take you anywhere you like. Is that no longer an option?

 

[Divin'Papaw]

While I haven't dived in that area recently, I am skeptical about the lack of choice. My understanding is that there are a number of 6-pack charter boats in the area which typically cater to fishermen but will also take divers out on request. Just get together with a few buddies and hire one of those for the day, they'll take you anywhere you like. Is that no longer an option?

John is correct. There are definitely fewer choices in Pompano, especially fewer choices that many of us consider acceptable. Yes, a group can charter one of the few 6-packs in the area. But diving off of a fishing boat is not the most comfortable, and there are only a few 6-pack dive boats. The vast majority of us used to jump on Sea Siren or Sea Dog. They were by far the top choice for tech and advanced divers. They are no more. Well actually, I dive on Sea Siren and Sea Dog all the time (including this coming weekend), but they are now called Aurelia and Marin and they live up in Lake Park Marina. They are fantastic boats.

 

[Dan G]

I wanted to make a comment on the use of split drops, which I have seen with SFDH. The reason for it, in least in the times I am there (winters), is a sharp reduction in diving activity in that region. They have three boats, and they advertise three dives. People sign up for those dives. When the total numbers are in and there aren't a lot of divers, they combine the people who signed up for the dives onto one boat and do the split dive.

I agree it is not a safe practice, but the problem is there is not a lot of choice for local divers. It is nearly that or nothing. There used to be more boats in the area, and there were more divers to go on them. A few years ago, Joe would have probably done that dive off of the Sea Siren with Pompano Dive Center, and he would have gone down a line to the Lowrance, with the boat staying there on the surface. (I did exactly such a dive with him years ago.) Pompano Dive center is gone now, and there are so little tech diving going on there that I have decided I won't even bring my tech gear next winter.

I wonder if this practice has changed recently. I dove with SFDH twice last week out of Pompano and one day we had only 6 divers on the Aqua View to go to Lady Luck. Maybe that's enough to make a trip cost effective or maybe the fact that the Black Pearl had plenty of people on it that day made a small group on Aqua View viable. I have no insight into SFDH innerworkings, so I am just wondering aloud in response.