Poll: Were you OW trained to standards?

[Eric Sedletzky]

Looking at the poll, 22.5% of divers say they were trained below standards.
Is anybody else bothered by this besides me?
Maybe we need to do another poll with the respondents claiming below standards just to see which agency wins on below average training.
Or does it even matter?
Strange that I haven’t seen any agency cheerleaders on this thread spewing. Hmm, eerie silence indeed.

 

[Belzelbub]

Looking at the poll, 22.6% of divers say they were trained below standards.
Is anybody else bothered by this besides me?

Yes. I’m bothered by it. Though, I’m not sure I’m surprised by the results.

In my case, I was bothered to the extent that I got ripped off on that first class. Or more accurately, my parents got ripped off. It didn’t take much for me to realize that with the instruction I got, I wasn’t comfortable with diving autonomously. So, I took another class. I shouldn’t have had to, but that was the case.

I’ve never spent another dollar in that first shop since that day. Even though, they are the closest shop to my house.

 

[scubadada]

Yes. I’m bothered by it. Though, I’m not sure I’m surprised by the results.

In my case, I was bothered to the extent that I got ripped off on that first class. Or more accurately, my parents got ripped off. It didn’t take much for me to realize that with the instruction I got, I wasn’t comfortable with diving autonomously. So, I took another class. I shouldn’t have had to, but that was the case.

I’ve never spent another dollar in that first shop since that day. Even though, they are the closest shop to my house.

Do you dive at all locally or drive over to the east coast? Looks like 4+ hours to Jupiter, West Palm, and Boynton Beach.

 

[undrwater]

Looking at the poll, 22.5% of divers say they were trained below standards.

Some of this is likely PERCEPTION of below standards training. That's important, but it's possible the perception was not communicated, so no correction could be made.

 

[DreadnoughtNH]

Maybe we need to do another poll with the respondents claiming below standards just to see which agency wins on below average training.
Or does it even matter?
Strange that I haven’t seen any agency cheerleaders on this thread spewing. Hmm, eerie silence indeed.

Thunderous silence indeed.

I don't think it matters. IMO (and it's been repeated ad nauseum on SB), all the scuba agencies are businesses; if they did not make money, they would not exist. I feel it falls on the individual instructor to Provide the appropriate trAining. Even a really gooD shop can have a poor quality instructor who runnIng people through their machine and extracting their money. Folks interested in diving should do their research on the shop and instructor, and try to make an informed decision.

I guess that's why I always snicker at divers who say "I'm 'certified' for [insert skill here]." You either:

1) know how to and can execute the [insert skill here] successfully, safely, repeatedly, and without great fanfare (and you therefore don't say anything, but just nod and get on with it),

2) you demonstrated the ability to complete the [insert skill here] at some point to an agency representative who you traded currency for a piece of paper that says you were able to complete the bare minimum [insert skill here], (and therefore you have expensive paper, are VERY proud of it, and feel the need to announce it), or,

3) you do not know how to complete [insert skill here] and therefore should not attempt it until you have sought out someone reputable to teach [insert skill here].

 

[rx7diver]

In light of another thread going on about AOW lacking, I’m curious about what your OW course was like.
Did you get trained to standards?
Below standards?
Or maybe the instructor went above and beyond and trained you above written standards? ...

You know, I never really considered whether or not I was being "trained to standards" when I took my open water course in 1986. (University NAUI/YMCA three-credit hour, semester-long course.) My instructor taught my course the way he always had: Lots of physical conditioning including surface swimming (it was an undergraduate PE course, and he was a swimming-for-conditiong prof and past univ swim coach), lots of skin-diving, and lots of buddy-breathing, black-out mask, no mask, bail-out, harassment, U/W ditching and donning, rescue, etc., skills.

A week-long open water checkout trip to northern AR involving lots of camping and diving.

Those of us who elected to return to help TA the scuba course were "rewarded" by being allowed to check out university-owned scuba cylinders (unlimited air fills) over the weekend, to go "local" diving (central MO), from day one. (TA's were unpaid volunteers.) Our instructor insisted only that we dive only with a buddy who, too, had taken and passed the course, and that we return the cylinders early enough to be filled in time for the next pool session.

So, we were taught to be--expected to be--independent divers, to dive independently in MO and AR lakes and quarries, from the very beginning.

I still don't know if we were "trained to standards", or not.

ETA: I just selected "beyond standards"--since universities have curriculum committees and risk assessment offices and legal offices, and I also knew that my LDS (PADI) at that time didn't have has students doing what we were doing.

rx7diver

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

You know, I never really considered whether or not I was being "trained to standards" when I took my open water course in 1986. (University NAUI/YMCA three-credit hour, semester-long course.) My instructor taught my course the way he always had: Lots of physical conditioning including surface swimming (it was an undergraduate PE course, and he was a swimming-for-conditiong prof and past univ swim coach), lots of skin-diving, and lots of buddy-breathing, black-out mask, no mask, bail-out, harassment, U/W ditching and donning, rescue, etc., skills.

A week-long open water checkout trip to northern AR involving lots of camping and diving.

Those of us who elected to return to help TA the scuba course were "rewarded" by being allowed to check out university-owned scuba cylinders (unlimited air fills) over the weekend, to go "local" diving (central MO), from day one. (TA's were unpaid volunteers.) Our instructor insisted only that we dive only with a buddy who, too, had taken and passed the course, and that we return the cylinders early enough to be filled in time for the next pool session.

So, we were taught to be--expected to be--independent divers, to dive independently in MO and AR lakes and quarries, from the very beginning.

I still don't know if we were "trained to standards", or not.

ETA: I just selected "beyond standards"--since universities have curriculum committees and risk assessment offices and legal offices, and I also knew that my LDS (PADI) at that time didn't have has students doing what we were doing.

rx7diver

You were trained way beyond standards, beyond any standard measured by todays standards, that’s for sure. Learning to dive is way more than just making them read the book (online or in print), giving them a quick test, then onto a little pool and four check out dives. This doesn’t produce autonomous divers, it produces bubble blowers that will spend money at resorts and tip divemasters for leading them around and to keep them safe. That’s today’s standard, and apparently some aren’t even getting that. All we have now in some cases is a glorified “try scuba”. Is that the instructors fault, or the agencies fault for allowing instructors to teaching under their names and get away with this stuff? They seem to have perfected sliding out from any and all responsibility. Why even need an agency title on your plastic card if they deny and disavow any quality control? It’s useless. All you hear around here is “turn them in”. Why would an agency chop off their helping hands? That’s all they got, and the pool of prospects is getting slimmer. Do you really think they are going to go around firing bad instructors? I don’t think so.
There is no skin diving or panic proofing, or proving you’re in shape enough to handle a shore dive with a buddy and not get overwhelmed and croak.

 

[Belzelbub]

Do you dive at all locally or drive over to the east coast? Looks like 4+ hours to Jupiter, West Palm, and Boynton Beach.

Mostly locally, with a trip to the Keys each year. Definitely, the majority of my dives are in the Gulf.

 

[Waterwulf]

If 23% face up and admit that they were or think they were trained below standards, how many more really were and just don't know it?

Some blame the individual Instructor but ultimately, it's the shops responsibility. The shop owner/manager needs to be aware of what their employees are doing. At least, they should if they want to stay in business. I would think strictly from a liability standpoint, the shop owner/manager would want to make sure their Instructors are teaching properly.

Then there's the profit aka the bottom line. Of course buy cheap and sell high but brand new little divers grow up to be big divers with fat wallets. Teach them well and they become loyal customers. Good Instructors are better for the long run.

 

[Belzelbub]

If 23% face up and admit that they were or think they were trained below standards, how many more really were and just don't know it?

Yeah, real good point. After my first course, I didn’t necessarily know that it was below standards (I learned that later). I just knew I didn’t get the instruction I needed to feel comfortable.

My next course was a YMCA/NAUI University course, and was way beyond standards.

I’ve since learned that a course to standards is somewhere between those two.