Planning to go to Belize? Unsafe practices you should know know about addressed

[drrich2]

I personally do not see OW and AOW certs as an automatic license to dive to 'x' depth.

That's true, they aren't, but then again, one doesn't require a license to dive to any depth.

While I can see the motivation to paternalisticly protect the ignorant, to what extent to you want Big Brother dictating what you can and cannot do?

I agree with past posts elsewhere (I believe by Jim Lapenta?) indicating today's basic OW courses often emphasize the safety of diving without communicating the dangerousness of it. Therefore, maybe dive op.s refusing to take OW divers on dives because they don't have an AOW or Deep cert. is what people want?

But is it?

Nobody forces anyone to dive the Blue Hole...

Richard.

 

[DevonDiver]

Nobody forces anyone to dive the Blue Hole...

Quite true. But operators do fail to appropriately inform customers of the inherent risks of that dive and further fail to provide honest advice/recommendations based upon the diver's competence in relation to the dive complexity and potential hazards.

I think that above practices, especially in relation to very novice divers, could easily be translated as a failure to apply a reasonable duty of care...

Going beyond that failure to advise... some may even encourage divers to exceed their comfort/competency; advocating 'trust me' diving; where the diver's are told it is "ok" for them to rely entirely upon their dive guide to supervise and ensure their safety. This is, again, highly contrary to safe diving practices.

 

[koozemani]

Quite true. But operators do fail to appropriately inform customers of the inherent risks of that dive and further fail to provide honest advice/recommendations based upon the diver's competence in relation to the dive complexity and potential hazards.

I think that above practices, especially in relation to very novice divers, could easily be translated as a failure to apply a reasonable duty of care...

Going beyond that failure to advise... some may even encourage divers to exceed their comfort/competency; advocating 'trust me' diving; where the diver's are told it is "ok" for them to rely entirely upon their dive guide to supervise and ensure their safety. This is, again, highly contrary to safe diving practices.

Any diver, new or not, should be aware whether a dive on a single tank with air to 140' is beyond their training. During my experience at the blue hole nothing was required to convince anyone to make the dive and short of a firm NO was going to deter any of the divers. Of the 17 that went down, I would estimate that no more than 6 had the knowledge, experience, and ability to make the dive safely. Most of the rest were on their first post cert trip. My wife and I opted to dive the surrounding reef instead. Her, because the dive was beyond her comfort level. Me, because I could already envision the A&I thread I'd be starting. We had a great dive, and after hearing about the dive from some of the other divers, were glad with our decision.

 

[supergaijin]

That's true, they aren't, but then again, one doesn't require a license to dive to any depth.While I can see the motivation to paternalisticly protect the ignorant, to what extent to you want Big Brother dictating what you can and cannot do?

IMO if Jim and Jane want to dive to 'x' depth then that's great and I just hope they know what they're doing. What I would like is to see the operators of 'tourist diving' self-police and start raising the bar, denying access to certain sites.

It could be done so much better. It seems in pretty much any country capable of growing a coconut tree, there was a movement away from scuba instruction. Instead the operators seem to concentrate more on profiting from the advent of mass-tourism: trying to fulfill the (often unrealistic) expectations of one-off tourists, instead of developing and protecting these places and growing the industry in the long-term.

This is not confined to the scuba industry of course- in all facets of life the economics triumph over sensibility; the desire for short-term gain leads to throwing caution to the wind.Again, what two individuals want to do in their free-time is none of my concern. However the scuba tourism industry needs to re-evaluate its priorities.

Quality training leads to safer dives at depth. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

 

[victorzamora]

So, this seems like a step in the right direction from PADI. Instead of having their head in the sand (I'm trying to be nice), they're at least admitting they see a problem. That's a big deal. Recognizing the problem is half the battle. However, THEY should have stepped up to do things. If nothing else, pulled certs claiming the guides acted against PADI safety standards. However, I REALLY don't want any government agency to get involved in diving. It's one of the few hobbies I have left that they haven't started to ruin. If this letter sparks ANY government to start stepping in and regulating diving, then this is clearly a step in the wrong direction.

Having said that, posting when and where we can will help raise awareness. Letting resorts know what shops have dangerous policies will (well, could) keep the resorts from recommending the "bad" shops to their clients. This would be the Capitalist way of saying we disagree. I know few divers read here religiously, but if we post enough bad reviews and spread the word enough it could cut down on the divers flocking to those shops. Anywhere that these really bad shops exist, there are 30 other shops within spitting distance.

Having said that, my faith has been at least partially restored in resort location dive shops. ProDive in Mexico was very specific on requiring AOW for a wreck dive and couldn't be convinced otherwise. After a diver (Rescue cert) had an awful dive on the wreck and proved himself to be much less skilled than his certs showed, they put him on easy, shallow dives and had an instructor work with him on improving his diving at no extra cost.

 

[flots am]

IMHO, that's PADI-apologist bullcr@p.

Yes, PADI don't have any formal authority on the business operations of a member dive center/instructor. However, they do have ABSOLUTE influence over the PADI membership status of those persons/businesses. They choose not to exert that influence through the membership agreement.

This is absolutely correct.

PADI can simply not renew any instructors, DMs or dive shops that it wishes to, which for all practical purposes, will immediately put the respective entity out of business.

I do not believe other certification agencies would sign up anybody who was cancelled for unsafe practices, so PADI has a huge mallet it can use at any time, with nothing more than a cancellation letter.

---------- Post added November 4th, 2013 at 10:28 AM ----------

PADI cautions dive guides and tour operators: Belize needs dive and scuba safety policy - The San Pedro Sun News

While it is long overdue and does not go nearly far enough new divers should be aware of unsafe practices like those noted here.

The really funny/sad part is that the dive is unsafe on a single tank regardless of experience level. The people that have the training to realize this are exactly the people who would refuse to do it as a single tank recreational dive, so the only recreational customers they get are people who by definition, don't understand the risk.

 

[Doubler]

This all has to do with the Benjamins so nothing is going to change. PADI wants their membership fees and dive shops want their dive fees so it won' t change and we all know it. The only way to stop it would be to close the Blue Hole to diving but the Belize Tourist Industry needs their bucks so that is not going to happen either. It is crap dive anyway that is WAY to hyped.

 

[boulderjohn]

This all has to do with the Benjamins so nothing is going to change. PADI wants their membership fees and dive shops want their dive fees so it won' t change and we all know it. The only way to stop it would be to close the Blue Hole to diving but the Belize Tourist Industry needs their bucks so that is not going to happen either. It is crap dive anyway that is WAY to hyped.

Actually, there is no reason to have to do this.

I led a group trip to Belize a few years ago, and the group voted to include a Blue Hole trip (which I was not excited about). The typical Blue Hole trip is actually a very good trip, if you could only skip the Blue Hole. After the Blue Hole, you typically go to Half Moon Caye, where you do two excellent dives and a very nice surface interval where you get to see a great nesting area for red footed boobies and frigate birds. Our group included a non-diving snorkeler and a newly certified diver. The snorkeler and the newly certified diver snorkeled the reef outside of the Blue Hole while the more experienced divers did the Blue Hole dive.

There is no reason the trip cannot be marketed that way. The snorkeler and new OW diver enjoyed the trip immensely, even though they did not descend into the abyss. I would even say that with proper marketing, a diver operation could increase revenues while being safer. People who are not currently qualified for the dive could have two options. 1) Do the three dive trip with everyone else, knowing they will be restricted to the shallow reef outside the Blue Hole for that portion of the trip. 2) Take an special preparatory class in the days prior to the Blue Hole trip.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've been to Belize once ... it was the first trip Cheng and I did after we were certified in 2001. At the time I had about 35 dives and she had less than 20. We were staying in Ambergris Caye, and diving with Amigos del Mar, which I thought was a pretty good outfit overall. During the early part of the week they talked up the Blue Hole trip quite a lot, and of the six people on our dive boat we were the only two who decided not to go. One of the other couples had just been certified that previous week-end, and by the time of the trip the wife had only four post OW dives on the reefs nearby.

The next day she excitedly told us about her Blue Hole experience ... she had gone to 150 feet, ran out of air at depth and got brought to the hang tank on the DM's air. He left her there and went back down to rejoin the group ... apparently having to then bring someone else up on his air and put them on the hang tank too. She thought it was all terribly exciting ... not having a clue what the risks of the dive were, and trusting completely in the DM to take care of her.

The week prior to our arrival a fellow from New York was lost at the Blue Hole ... some doctor who had been diving with his son. AFAIK, they never found his body ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[chillyinCanada]

The father was a relatively experienced diver and was diving with his sons with Ramon's. For some reason, I thought they'd found his body this past year. In any event, these anecdotes are from quite a number of years ago and there have been many changes since that time.