Pennsylvania considering implementing a "mileage-based user fee".

[arew+4]

I like meters on the EV plugs. With higher electric rates on those meters.

Won't happen because the government is stupidity of pushing them on people.

The main problem is as a society we have created a situation where almost everyone has to drive for just the necessities work, groceries etc.

I think this is more designed to motivate people to only drive for necessities and not drive for anything else.

Taxing the chargers won't work, there would be too many work arounds. You already get your vehicle inspected annually, so they know what your milage was last year the year before etc. They can probably get a pretty good bead on your annual average, budget you for the coming year and have you pay monthly, add a line item on your income tax return to correct any over or under payment.

 

[rvojr]

I live in the Chicago area, many toll roads. You think those tolls will EVER go away?

A couple weeks ago I was driving around Chicago around ORD, Chicago Heights then to Grand Rapids Michigan for work. The online toll by plate worked well. I was surprised it wasn't as expensive as if I were near NYC, NJ or DC.

I forgot the point. They paid off the bridges and had excess funds. So instead of reducing them they built dorms for Rutgers and a bunch of other unrelated stuff. No matter how the gov't tries to get the funds I doubt much of it will make it to fix the infrastructure anyway.

 

[kaylee_ann]

Those who use the most, shouldn't pay the most?

Maybe Uncle Joe can get you some forgiveness if he's re elected.

I mean for the people where it’s their job. They can’t help having to drive that much

 

[kaylee_ann]

I live in the Chicago area, many toll roads. You think those tolls will EVER go away?

Nope. I don’t see why they need to add on a mileage fee when we have tolls.

 

[-JD-]

EV's are getting an extra subsidy by using an un-taxed "fuel" (An interesting comparison. Use of un-taxed diesel (red-dyed off-road/heating oil) is subject to criminal penalties of up to 90 day jail/$1000 and civil penalties of $10/gal-Minimum of $1000 per incident.

Just in PA, think of all of the through-state trucking on un-tolled Route 80 (massive). If PA goes mileage only, then the trucks can use the road in PA for free and fill up with un-taxed fuel.

Without at least a degree of uniformity in scheme between states there is all sorts of distortions between in/out, out/in and through transiting vehicles.

If this scheme goes national. you will see an incentive to have registry haven states with lots of commercial vehicles with very low cost/mi, and lots of miles almost exclusively OUTSIDE the state. For any decent fleet it would be a no-brainer.

Quite frankly it is a mess no matter what.

 

[arew+4]

EV's are getting an extra subsidy by using an un-taxed "fuel" (An interesting comparison. Use of un-taxed diesel (red-dyed off-road/heating oil) is subject to criminal penalties of up to 90 day jail/$1000 and civil penalties of $10/gal-Minimum of $1000 per incident.

Just in PA, think of all of the through-state trucking on un-tolled Route 80 (massive). If PA goes mileage only, then the trucks can use the road in PA for free and fill up with un-taxed fuel.

Without at least a degree of uniformity in scheme between states there is all sorts of distortions between in/out, out/in and through transiting vehicles.

If this scheme goes national. you will see an incentive to have registry haven states with lots of commercial vehicles with very low cost/mi, and lots of miles almost exclusively OUTSIDE the state. For any decent fleet it would be a no-brainer.

Quite frankly it is a mess no matter what.

Commercial trucking, you put gps transponders on them, states charge what the market will bare. Rate can be based on current weight, so you get a dead head discount.

The only ones who get it bad would be ones who live on a border and do most of their driving in a neighboring state. And the converse would be true as well since those neighbors with a fuel tax could pop over the line for a nice discount.

 

[Wookie]

Commercial trucking, you put gps transponders on them, states charge what the market will bare. Rate can be based on current weight, so you get a dead head discount.

The only ones who get it bad would be ones who live on a border and do most of their driving in a neighboring state. And the converse would be true as well since those neighbors with a fuel tax could pop over the line for a nice discount.

*bear.

Please thank LB

 

[rmssetc]

Let's see if we can agree (Ha!) on some basic assumptions and facts:

• One function of government is the construction and maintenance of public roads
• Government exists, in part, to promote safety and happiness (as per the Declaration of Independence)
• Only some roads have tolls
• Different vehicles have different requirements for roads (ie., width, load capacity of bridges)
• Different use of vehicles (ie., load, speed) cause different amounts of wear on roads

What about a few items that may be more contentious?

• The cost to a driver or owner of vehicle (including a business) should be proportionate to their use of the vehicle and it's impact on the infrastructure
• Different fuels have different health & environmental impacts. To promote safety of the population, government may choose to promote certain fuels (ie., ban lead in gasoline, mandate use of ethanol blends, encourage electric vehicles) by a combination of taxes, fees, and incentives.

Toll roads encourage avoidance of tolls by choosing different routes -- leading to traffic and road wear in small municipalities that are less able to manage than a state-wide agency.

Gas taxes are more "fair" in that they intrinsically account for the vehicle efficiency, amount of use, and can promote use of EVs. They are also regressive, with a disproportionate impact on lower income drivers.

Mileage based fees can be one part of meeting funding needs. In states that require annual vehicle inspection/registration with submission of mileage there's no added government intrusion (except into your wallet). I wouldn't like them myself, but I do think they are more fair than some schemes (I'm looking at you, Virginia, with your "personal property tax" assessed annually on the value of a vehicle, regardless of whether it's on the road or not, and some counties go further in taxing vehicles that are registered out of state but parked in VA).

I live in PA frequently motorcycle throughout the east coast (Quebec to NC). As a rider, I'm much more aware of the structure, condition, and maintenance of the road surface than most drivers. PA roads are terrible, even compared to NJ or upstate NY, which have more dramatic temperature swings and frost cycles.

 

[BRT]

Two things are certain about whatever fee/tax structure comes out of the EV/Gas/Alternative fuel tax issue. 1. The amount of money collected will be greater than is being collected with gas taxes. 2. A lot of that money will be spent on something other than roads.

 

[Thunder Struck]

I live in PA frequently motorcycle throughout the east coast (Quebec to NC). As a rider, I'm much more aware of the structure, condition, and maintenance of the road surface than most drivers. PA roads are terrible, even compared to NJ or upstate NY, which have more dramatic temperature swings and frost cycles.

Come ride here in Vegas where the summer time temperatures get so hot and soften the asphalt to the point my wife complains about her high heels sinking into the asphalt. Some roads have pronounced ruts in them as you approach the intersection from heavy trucks coming to a stop and wearing down the roadway from the weight transfer during braking.