Confined water dive experience, from a freaked out newbie

[Scott]

Skittle1321, The class is progressing at a faster pace than you are comfortable with.

Guess what? You are not ready for the checkout dives! You know it, Kevin may know it, ScubaBoard now knows it, the only one I doubt knows it, is your instructor!
I would inquire about additional pool time, one on one with a good instructor and a slower paced course.

All the issues you are having are not uncommon, all of them can be worked through to where you can be competent and confident in those skills, it just
requires more time working on them.

 

[TSandM]

I wish I had seen this last night. I would like you to read the journal of my open water class (link in my sig line). Although I didn't have anxiety issues, I DID get sent off to the corner for remedial work during every pool session, and I was NOT ready for my open water dives when I did them.

Reading your essay, I shook my head. There are a lot of red flags in it -- you are not a student who is going to handle the compressed format class in which you have landed. Some people take to scuba like they were born to it, and you and I do not; people like us just need a slower pace and more time to work out problems. In addition, I suspect you are dealing with one of the issues I faced, which is that you are doing everything on your knees, and you are finding STAYING on your knees difficult. That's perfectly fine -- there is NO time in "real diving" where it is desirable to be on one's knees.

The instruction to blow bubbles when the reg is out of your mouth is designed to make sure you don't close your airway and inadvertently ascend. You are exhaling much too fast, and it's increasing your stress. Try making an "eeeeeee" sound when you are exhaling -- this works for the CESA, too. "Eeeee" keeps the airway narrow and limits the rate of exhalation, so you don't blow your lungs empty right away. That's a very uncomfortable feeling.

I think it would also help you to master the art of breathing through a snorkel with some water in it. It can be done -- you inhale slowly, and protect your throat with your tongue. (This won't work if the snorkel is FULL of water, but should work if, after a blast clear, some water remains.) You need to defuse the panic you're experiencing when you get water into your mouth, because it WILL happen. The good news is that you can do this snorkel work in the kitchen sink or bathtub, so you can practice to your heart's content at home.

Please don't allow the instructor you are working with to push you into open water yet. You aren't ready, and you won't have fun. Fix the issues in the pool. You CAN do it. You just need more time, and perhaps a more sympathetic instructor with a few more tools in his toolbox.

 

[oly5050user]

I started to comment on your post by quoting your writing and saying what is wrong..I stopped and chose to write this as it will be much shorter. There is so so much wrong in this class.
Go to a different facility/instructor. Too many things done wrong here on the instructors part.This is supposed to be fun.Not one horror story after another. Pool time is rushed, why is intructor doing skills in modules 1-2 3 in first pool session?? I have to say that what you have written sounds like borderline negligence on instructors part. .Skills are done out of order.Example;CESA done in pool session 3 not 1. Only partial mask flood/clear in session 1, not full flood/clear.
Purchase correct fitting gear from a professional who can size you properly.Purchase your own 3 mm wetsuit for the course and future dive trips NOW.
Who is Kevin? If he is a boyfriend/husband get him out of the pool NOW.Unless he is a divemaster/instructor working there he should not be there, even if they are a pro I would not recommend them being there.. At times I may let a spouse of a student participate in a pool session, but the 1st time I see him/her assisting or attempting to correct the student they are out of there immediately. Even if a couple sign up together for a ow class I might let them buddy up. but if I see 1 too dependent on the other I give them different buddies..

 

[Skittl1321]

Skittle1321, The class is progressing at a faster pace than you are comfortable with.

Guess what? You are not ready for the checkout dives! You know it, Kevin may know it, ScubaBoard now knows it, the only one I doubt knows it, is your instructor!
I would inquire about additional pool time, one on one with a good instructor and a slower paced course.

All the issues you are having are not uncommon, all of them can be worked through to where you can be competent and confident in those skills, it just
requires more time working on them.

Well, the good news is my instructor did know it. During one of the classroom breaks I asked him "if I pass, do you think I should still go back to the pool before OW?" He said "well, if you pass the test, you did pass- because you checked out every skill, but yes, I already told (store owner) that if you want you should be allowed to do more pool sessions." So because I passed, they are okay with me doing OW. Because I am self-aware, and they are a good dive shop, I'm not going to do that yet. I'm going to do one day of next month's confined water dives, they don't charge any extra, not even equipment rental. They told me that I can either go and just gear up and run through skills on my own, and grab an instructor if I need one, or I can do the second day skills with the class.

At times I may let a spouse of a student participate in a pool session, but the 1st time I see him/her assisting or attempting to correct the student they are out of there immediately.

Kevin is my husband. He was my buddy for the course, a student in the course. He went into this class knowing as little as I did, maybe even less, because he didn't research anything ahead of time, just do the book work required by PADI. He didn't assist or correct anymore than any other buddy did. In the skills we were pared up for, we were told to help each other and remind them of things they may have missed. The second day, I didn't end up working with him. He paired with another person while I went off with an instructor.

As much as people are saying the instructors aren't good, I don't think that was the case. Both times I had major trouble someone worked with me individually. The only reason I caught up with the rest of the class was because my mask skills went so quickly. Otherwise, I think my buddy and I would have had a private lesson...

I do feel like the class progressed too fast for me, and that added to my discomfort, but it wasn't like any of the horror stories I read where people are held down by instructors to complete skills- this was just me getting passed mental issues for things I knew I could do... There were plenty of instructors and the one who worked with me most of the time separately was very sympathetic. There was never a rush to get back to what other people were doing.


So today, was Day 2 of confined water (and then afterwards the last few classroom lectures and the final). Like I said, I got checked off on all my skills, and passed the class, and was cleared to go to OW to checkout (which, again, I'm not going to do yet). We've decided my husband will checkout without me. This way he doesn't have to worry about me, and when I go later to checkout, I don't have to worry about him.

The skills today went much much better. I kind of ended up having a private lesson, because I got behind on the first scuba skill, and didn't really catch up. The first thing we did was the 300 m snorkel/fin swim, and I couldn't do it. The snorkel freaks me out if I have to use it continuously like that. Apparently the shop does not normally offer it, but they let me do the 200 m swim. That was no problem. Then we did the snorkel dive skills (dive under, blow out water, dive under, etc). That was okay, but after a few dives I'd have to stop, take my mask off, breathe a second, then start again. Before next month when I go back for the pool session, I plan to go to the city pool and try to snorkel practice a bit. I thought getting more comfortable in the mask would help my snorkeling, as I've always blamed that for my crappy snorkeling, but I'm not sure that is the issue. I am much more comfortable in my mask than I used to be, I still don't like it on at the surface, but I can breathe through my mouth now. Just can't see anything because the nose exhaling fogs it up (can see underwater though). Next we did the 10 minute float, and that is my one A+ skill. I float so well I probably could have taken a nap, just closed my eyes and relaxed. I had to do a 30 minute tread for rowing, so this was nothing. The diver tows were fine.

So then we got all our gear on, I was nervous about the giant stride, but when I did it did fine. Did weights, they said since I was anxious and breathing a bit heavy, to go with about 2 lbs more than I needed, and I was good to go.

So the first SCUBA skill was to manually inflate the BCD. I got a really good breath in it, switched to my regulator, got a good breath into the BCD, then couldn't get the regulator in well. I blew into it, but it still felt full of water. I purged it but still couldn't take a deep breathe. I thumbed it, and went up, exhaling. So I bolted, but did it at the "safe rate". When I got up there one of the instructors talked to me for awhile, asked me if I was doing this because my husband wanted me too (good question, but no- it was my idea), asked me if I've always dealt with a fear of water (nope, no fear of water, fear of not breathing...), asked about claustrophobia (little of that), and took me over the shallow end. This is where we then took a lot of time, and why I got so far behind the class. He had me put my reg in, breathe, take it out- exhale slowly (slower, slower...), put it in, probably 10 times. All above the water. Then we did it below the water. Then we moved over to the deep end and did it again.

So that got me a lot more comfortable with it. Then I went down, did the BCD manual inflation, did the fin tip exercise, hovered, etc. My boyancy isn't great, but it is improving. By the end of the class I swam across the bottom of the pool only killing one tiny patch of "coral", didn't annihilate the entire reef like yesterday.

Then I did the BCD off and back on underwater. This had the instructor laughing at me. I could not get the darn thing back on. It was major underwater acrobatics. He said he was about to thumb me up to talk about it, but I didn't look like I was panicing and kept going, so he let me. I finally got the stupid thing on, probably head over heals 3 times. But like I said, I'm not scared of water, my regulator was in my mouth and no one was making me take it out, so it was just a matter of time, trial and error, and feet floating over my head (my legs are "light", that means fat...)

Taking the weights out of my weight belt was fine, getting them back in was a bit tough. BCD removal/put back on on the surface was fine.
Out of air exercise in the deep end went just fine. By this point we'd done regulator in and out a million times and I got it in one try. I also got to experience a slightly different thing from yesterday because this instructor had his octo around his neck and donated his primary. It also had a 7 foot hose, so I swam next to him, instead of holding on.

The only other thing I had a little trouble with was the no mask swim. But I shouldn't have. The swim was absolutely okay. It was getting the mask back on, but not really. I was wearing a hood (just to get that variable out of the way before the quarry dive) and when I put the mask back on, I couldn't find the hood. So I couldn't figure out how to make sure the hood was clear of the mask, and since I felt water under my nose, I thought I couldn't clear it. I wear contacts so I couldn't open my eyes, so I didn't know how to ask what I should try to do (I was breathing okay). I thumbed it, so I could go up to talk to him. The instructor was wondering what the heck was wrong. Apparently my mask WAS clear (I almost always breathe out through my nose, mask clear is not an issue- if this happens during checkout, he told me just to open my eyes a little to check if they are dry, because I'm probably done with the skill) , I just had some water under my nose so it didn't feel clear. Dumb. He just had me go under water, take it off and on again, and it was fine.

At this point the rest of the class was in 20 minutes free time, so I got 10 minutes free time. I did regulator in/out of my mouth about 20 times. I swam to work on my boyancy. While I had a few errors today, there were no major freakouts, no hyperventilating, and the things I couldn't do yesterday I practiced today.

So I'm happy with how today went, I'm happy with the instructors. Which is good- there isn't another facility, so it would be them or no SCUBA (or a resort course somewhere...).

---------- Post added June 9th, 2013 at 05:32 PM ----------

Mask issues need to be resolved. Better mask is a great idea.

I dove with a different mask today, and it was a little better, but the skirt would still slip into my lip. I bought a new mask today, very small mask for "slim faces" (no one would ever describe my face as slim, I've got chipmunk cheeks, I'm just small), so I will practice with it next month. Husband got a new mask too. We were hoping our snorkel masks would due, but they just aren't comfortable enough to stay in for an extended period of time, with pressure on them.

 

[oly5050user]

Well, the good news is my instructor did know it. During one of the classroom breaks I asked him "if I pass, do you think I should still go back to the pool before OW?" He said "well, if you pass the test, you did pass- because you checked out every skill,

if you cannot do the skills in a comfortable,stress free, REPEATABLE manner then you did not pass. I would not have you go on the open water training dives. More pool time sounds like it is required. Not a big deal. Happens every so often. Sorry but in your writing alot of the pool skills were introduced out of order, there is a very valid reason the instructor is to introduce skills in a precise order. Did the instructor have his confined water slates with him and read them off before starting the session?..Learning to dive is done by experience a bit at a time. Not all introduced at once in 1 pool session. Did you at least get more than 2 pool sessions? Do you know that it is in training standards that you put your gear together and take it apart a minimum of 5 times?

but yes, I already told (store owner) that if you want you should be allowed to do more pool sessions."

This instructor knows at least you need mor pool time. I do not know why he says you "passed".

So because I passed, they are okay with me doing OW. Because I am self-aware, and they are a good dive shop, I'm not going to do that yet. I'm going to do one day of next month's confined water dives, they don't charge any extra, not even equipment rental. They told me that I can either go and just gear up and run through skills on my own, and grab an instructor if I need one, or I can do the second day skills with the class.

This tells me the instructor is very limited on pool time. Next month pool time is too far away. In that time you will be almost starting over again as you are not at ease with required skills.

Kevin is my husband. He was my buddy for the course, a student in the course. He went into this class knowing as little as I did, maybe even less, because he didn't research anything ahead of time, just do the book work required by PADI. He didn't assist or correct anymore than any other buddy did. In the skills we were pared up for, we were told to help each other and remind them of things they may have missed. The second day, I didn't end up working with him. He paired with another person while I went off with an instructor.

As much as people are saying the instructors aren't good, I don't think that was the case. Both times I had major trouble someone worked with me individually. The only reason I caught up with the rest of the class was because my mask skills went so quickly. Otherwise, I think my buddy and I would have had a private lesson...

I do feel like the class progressed too fast for me

,
every person is different. Some learn new skills faster than others. Teaching skills in the 1st pool session that belong in the THIRD SESSION by standards is wrong. I would not say the instructor is good. I may even say he is negligent.

and that added to my discomfort, but it wasn't like any of the horror stories I read where people are held down by instructors to complete skills- this was just me getting passed mental issues for things I knew I could do... There were plenty of instructors and the one who worked with me most of the time separately was very sympathetic. There was never a rush to get back to what other people were doing.

So today, was Day 2 of confined water (and then afterwards the last few classroom lectures and the final).

Only 2 pool sessions? No way near enough from the sound of things. In open water holding your nose because of possible water discomfort and going to surface for any reason, unless you are out of air, is unacceptable

Like I said, I got checked off on all my skills, and passed the class, and was cleared to go to OW to checkout (which, again, I'm not going to do yet). We've decided my husband will checkout without me. This way he doesn't have to worry about me, and when I go later to checkout, I don't have to worry about him.

The skills today went much much better. I kind of ended up having a private lesson, because I got behind on the first scuba skill, and didn't really catch up. The first thing we did was the 300 m snorkel/fin swim, and I couldn't do it.

The snorkel freaks me out if I have to use it continuously like that. Apparently the shop does not normally offer it, but they let me do the 200 m swim.

What are you to do i you have to swim 200 yds back to boat/shore and have issues with the snorkel?

That was no problem. Then we did the snorkel dive skills (dive under, blow out water, dive under, etc). That was okay, but after a few dives I'd have to stop, take my mask off, breathe a second, then start again. Before next month when I go back for the pool session, I plan to go to the city pool and try to snorkel practice a bit. I thought getting more comfortable in the mask would help my snorkeling, as I've always blamed that for my crappy snorkeling, but I'm not sure that is the issue. I am much more comfortable in my mask than I used to be, I still don't like it on at the surface, but I can breathe through my mouth now. Just can't see anything because the nose exhaling fogs it up

why did not the instructor have you use a mask defog agent such as "sea drops"?

(can see underwater though). Next we did the 10 minute float, and that is my one A+ skill. I float so well I probably could have taken a nap, just closed my eyes and relaxed. I had to do a 30 minute tread for rowing, so this was nothing. The diver tows were fine.

So then we got all our gear on, I was nervous about the giant stride, but when I did it did fine. Did weights, they said since I was anxious and breathing a bit heavy, to go with about 2 lbs more than I needed, and I was good to go.

So the first SCUBA skill was to manually inflate the BCD. I got a really good breath in it, switched to my regulator, got a good breath into the BCD, then couldn't get the regulator in well. I blew into it, but it still felt full of water. I purged it but still couldn't take a deep breathe.

I thumbed it, and went up,

not an option in open water..

exhaling. So I bolted, but did it at the "safe rate". When I got up there one of the instructors talked to me for awhile, asked me if I was doing this because my husband wanted me too (good question, but no- it was my idea), asked me if I've always dealt with a fear of water (nope, no fear of water, fear of not breathing...), asked about claustrophobia (little of that), and took me over the shallow end. This is where we then took a lot of time, and why I got so far behind the class. He had me put my reg in, breathe, take it out- exhale slowly (slower, slower...), put it in, probably 10 times. All above the water. Then we did it below the water. Then we moved over to the deep end and did it again.

So that got me a lot more comfortable with it. Then I went down, did the BCD manual inflation, did the fin tip exercise, hovered, etc. My boyancy isn't great, but it is improving. By the end of the class I swam across the bottom of the pool only killing one tiny patch of "coral", didn't annihilate the entire reef like yesterday.

Then I did the BCD off and back on underwater. This had the instructor laughing at me. I could not get the darn thing back on. It was major underwater acrobatics. He said he was about to thumb me up to talk about it, but I didn't look like I was panicing and kept going, so he let me. I finally got the stupid thing on, probably head over heals 3 times. But like I said, I'm not scared of water, my regulator was in my mouth and no one was making me take it out, so it was just a matter of time, trial and error, and feet floating over my head (my legs are "light", that means fat...)

Taking the weights out of my weight belt was fine, getting them back in was a bit tough. BCD removal/put back on on the surface was fine.
Out of air exercise in the deep end went just fine. By this point we'd done regulator in and out a million times and I got it in one try.

The only thing I had a little trouble with was the no mask swim. But I shouldn't have. I was wearing a hood (just to get that variable out of the way before the quarry dive) and when I put the mask back on, I couldn't find the hood. So I couldn't figure out how to make sure the hood was clear of the mask, and since I felt water under my nose, I thought I couldn't clear it. I wear contacts so I couldn't open my eyes, so I didn't know how to ask what I should try to do (I was breathing okay). I thumbed it, so I could go up to talk to him. The instructor was wondering what the heck was wrong. Apparently my mask WAS clear (I almost always breathe out through my nose, mask clear is not an issue- if this happens during checkout, he told me just to open my eyes a little to check if they are dry, because I'm probably done with the skill) , I just had some water under my nose so it didn't feel clear. Dumb. He just had me go under water, take it off and on again, and it was fine.

At this point the rest of the class was in 20 minutes free time, so I got 10 minutes free time. I did regulator in/out of my mouth about 20 times. I swam to work on my boyancy. While I had a few errors today, there were no major freakouts, no hyperventilating, and the things I couldn't do yesterday I practiced today.

So I'm happy with how today went, I'm happy with the instructors. Which is good- there isn't another facility, so it would be them or no SCUBA (or a resort course somewhere...).

 

[Skittl1321]

Do you know that it is in training standards that you put your gear together and take it apart a minimum of 5 times?

Yep, and we did that- 5 times in a row the first day, and then again to get ready the second day. That was no issue at all. I just can't pick up and carry a full tank (though I can walk with it on my back).

This instructor knows at least you need mor pool time. I do not know why he says you "passed".

Because I did every skill. I did the skills I was uncomfortable with more than once. I met the minimum requirement, and he would feel okay if I went to OW, he just recommended, and I already agreed, that more pool practice was a good thing.

Only 2 pool sessions? No way near enough from the sound of things. In open water holding your nose because of possible water discomfort and going to surface for any reason, unless you are out of air, is unacceptable

The pool sessions were 5 hours and 4 hours long. Confined dive 1 and 2 were combined, and 3 and 4. I held my nose because I couldn't get under water (from the surface) without getting water up my nose. I never held my nose when doing mask removal skills under water. I certainly didn't hold my nose while doing the underwater no mask breathing. Just to get from the surface to underwater.

What are you to do i you have to swim 200 yds back to boat/shore and have issues with the snorkel?

Stop, take a second to breathe above the water, then start swimming again? I don't think I'll need to do 300 meters with no stopping in real life, am I being chased by a shark? Or just not use the snorkel, put the mask around my neck, and swim like a normal person? That's what I did in Antigua and Cozumel, both times swimming in the ocean (Antigua off the boat, Cozumel a shore trip, but in currents), and both times I was in the water for over an hour, in water too deep to stand (Antigua water WAY too deep to stand). I would snorkel for about 10 minutes, swim for 20 or so, snorkel a bit more, then swim. Both times were without fins though. I've never used them before this weekend. We do plan to go to the pool to practice fin swimming. PADI standards allow the 200 meter swim, which I did without any issues at all.

why did not the instructor have you use a mask defog agent such as "sea drops"?

My mask was defogged three times yesterday and twice today. I breathe out through my nose. It just isn't possible to keep a mask defogged. Today I didn't even take my mask off between skills. I'm getting more comfortable with it on.

 

[Inked Medic]

We're human, not fish, the whole underwater thing doesn't come naturally to everyone. I think one of the most important things for a new diver to remember is that an open water course teaches you the skills you need to dive but it doesn't necessarily have the time built in for skill mastery. Take mask clearing: this skill, while it becomes a thoughtless action to seasoned divers, it is one of the hardest skills to master. How fast is it initially taught? In roughly five minutes, repeating the skill a few times, a few time more, then you test in the open water.

Considering your struggles, it sounds to me like the course pace may be too fast for you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going to your instructor and asking to be moved to another class, that with a slower pace. Some private sessions with either a divemaster to review skills or a flat-out private class wouldn't be a bad idea either.

When I got my OW cert, the gal I took the course with didn't bother to inform me that she couldn't swim which lead to her panicking on a regular basis. She learned to swim (kind of) and took a private course with the instructor she started with. She was able to learn the skills and successfully passed her open water dives.

Don't be discourged, but I think you need to talk to the instructor. Best of luck!

---------- Post added June 9th, 2013 at 08:37 PM ----------

Regarding your fogging mask ...

If you mask is new, have you scrubbed off the film on the lenses? Take your basic cheap toothpaste (not get, not foaming, just regular toothpaste) and gently scrub the lenses a few times, drying them with a clean cloth in between. Then use a quality defog, and if not that, dish soap works as well.

 

[Peter69_56]

You have the desire to dive, clearly. Your practice is helping you improve so keep practicing.

Once you are finished the course, remember one thing, keep practicing. I still take my reg out and change over, just for practice, and take my mask off and play with it, just for practice and familiarity. The day your mask is kicked off you will get no warning at all, so the more comfortable you are with this and other activities the better you will be and the calmer you will feel. Panic kills, practice, practice, practice.

In time you will laugh about your training episode, but for now, practice as much as you can so you get very comfortable with it all.


Enjoy the diving and have fun.

 

[TSandM]

I think it sounds like things went much better. You still need to defuse the anxiety about purging a regulator or snorkel, and you have time at home to work on the snorkel thing, and time in the pool to work on the regulator part of it. It's getting better, clearly, but still needs work.

The comment your instructor made about you having done the skills and therefore having passed confined water is just a reflection of the disconnect between the concept of teaching skills in isolation, and the idea of doing them "comfortably and repeatably, in the manner of an open water diver". An open water diver should be able, at least in my opinion and the opinion of a number of others here, to cope with most of the basic skills while in the process of DIVING. That means not kneeling on the bottom, not sitting on their haunches, not hanging onto anything, but DIVING -- swimming in neutral buoyancy. Nobody expects the OW diver to do the skills while hovering and maintaining exactly the same depth -- it takes quite a while to be able to do that. But if your reg gets kicked out of your mouth (and it happens!), you should be able to recover it and purge it without that making a significant dent in the process of the dive. Clearly, the instructional staff at your shop does not visualize the teaching process this way (and this is not uncommon).

At least you have the common sense to realize that at some point you will need these skills during a DIVE, and you should therefore be able to do them WHILE DIVING. It will come. It just takes time and practice, and it sounds as though even what you've been able to do to this point has paid off quite nicely.

 

[Quero]

It sounds like you are the perfect candidate for private instruction, and in fact, in all practical senses that's what you have received. Some people just have a harder time of it than others in the water, but that's also true of the academics. I once had a couple who were both A330 pilots, so they had no trouble reading the manuals and marking answers, but the woman really could connect the dots in the information and understand it at a deeper level whereas the guy could remember everything but didn't immediately comprehend how it all fits together. In the water, though, he was a fish, and she had to stand up in the shallow end a number of times because the water at the end of her nose in the mask caused anxiety, and the anxiety made her feel like the regulator wasn't delivering enough air. Eventually, after quite a lot of making analogies and talking through the dive theory, the guy fully understood it (at a basic level of course), and after targeted pool work the woman managed to get past her mask and regulator anxieties. They are now a great dive buddy pair. Keep in mind that these are people who fly a huge machine with hundreds of lives under their care every day, so they're not scaredy-cats nor slow learners. They just each had their challenges to face and overcome, and they did it. I'm confident that you will as well.

It seems to me that the turning point for you was when the instructor made you exhale through the reg slower and slower and slower. Practice slow exhales while you're on land so that you become more aware of your breathing rate. One of my students had the worst time with horizontal CESAs because he would breathe out way too fast and run out of air. I gave him a watch with a second hand and instructed him to sit in a chair and time his exhales until he could stretch them out to 30 seconds (which is the maximum ascent rate/minimum time for doing this exercise in the pool). That helped him a lot--he even managed to get all the way to 40 seconds--maybe it would help you.