Paramedics called at Casino Point - 1/19/08

[JodiBB]

No offense, but if you are a HIPAA compliant clinician you should know that HIPAA has everything to do with patient confidentiality.

No offense taken; however, you left out one HUGE component....it's the transmission and use of patient information between health care providers and insurance companies...it has NOTHING to do with good samaritans trying to help out another person.

Missy....Thanks so much for the update! We were really concerned about her...

We didn't know anything about Sunday's event as we were only there on Saturday.

 

[drbill]

Given the number of divers who dive Casino Point each year, especially the high percentage of students and newly certified divers, I'm not entirely convinced that the incident statistics there are out of line. I'd like to se a statistical evaluation of these data in comparison to the general population before I'd really comment.

I agree with observations by others, including Mr.X., of some instructors who don't seem qualified to be diving much less instructing, however most of the ones I'm familiar with do a good job and many exceed standards (oops, I shouldn't reveal that in case certain agencies are reading this, should I?).

 

[Mr.X]

Given the number of divers who dive Casino Point each year, especially the high percentage of students and newly certified divers, I'm not entirely convinced that the incident statistics there are out of line. I'd like to se a statistical evaluation of these data in comparison to the general population before I'd really comment.

I agree with observations by others, including Mr.X., of some instructors who don't seem qualified to be diving much less instructing, however most of the ones I'm familiar with do a good job and many exceed standards (oops, I shouldn't reveal that in case certain agencies are reading this, should I?).

I agree with Dr. Bill too. Data would be very interesting to analyze. On that note -
what makes the Casino dive park so special vs. fee-based dive parks (with supervising personnel) is that anyone can go diving there! Additionally, access to the water was made easier a few years back with the addition of some concrete steps. IMO it's a + & -. Anyone and their uncle can now get into the water...which they do. Also, it's not unusual on certain days to see students lined-up like cattle on the stairs, being implored into the water by their DM's, or instructors.

Sometimes, its clear to see that some of the students thinking of entering the water have no business being there. It's apparent from their body language and hesitation at the edge of the stairs. Once in the water, these students have very little option other than to perform poorly. Luckily, most non-starters make their intent known on the surface where they can be escorted back to the stairs.

That being said, I think the Casino dive park is a spectacular place to visit. On the outer edges of the park & deeper it's quite nice. The resident fish, schools of mackerel and a short walk to Olafs (ice cream) and downtown Catalina make the island a spectacular place to visit. In short, Catalina and the Casino are examples of paradise!

X

included are pics from the old days vs. the new stairs minus the added hand rail.

 

[Otter]

...snip... however most of the ones I'm familiar with do a good job and many exceed standards (oops, I shouldn't reveal that in case certain agencies are reading this, should I?).

Actually they are minimum standards, not maximum standards.

 

[Codyjp]

The last word I had heard via Docs at the clinic was that the girl was responding to verbal commands, was doing 'ok' and then after a chamber ride was airlifted to Long Beach Memorial. Is there any more news?

Also, another thumbs up to the EMT's/Fire/Harbor patrol/Baywatch in their prompt response to the accident.

 

[drbill]

But, Mr.X., have you been here since the large rocks in front of the lower stairs were moved? I'm not sure whether this has made things easier or not... especially at low tide, since divers now have to lift themselves up out of the water. I've heard some concerns raised about this, but certainly the intent was very positive... and it is easier for most at moderate to high tide than it was.

Otter... I've been told by some instructors with some agencies that they are not supposed to exceed the required standards. I guess those skills are to be reserved for the next certification course. Since I'm not an instructor, and am not familiar with current standards for all agencies, I can only comment based on what I have heard. I know there are instructors with some agencies who require that students exceed the agency standards before they will certify them.

 

[drbill]

Codyjp, last I heard from the paramedics on Sunday was that she was going to be "fine" at least physically. I believe they said she walked to the helicopter after the chamber ride, although word from the chamber crew would be more accurate than anything I know.

 

[JodiBB]

But, Mr.X., have you been here since the large rocks in front of the lower stairs were moved? I'm not sure whether this has made things easier or not... especially at low tide, since divers now have to lift themselves up out of the water. I've heard some concerns raised about this, but certainly the intent was very positive... and it is easier for most at moderate to high tide than it was.

Dr. Bill...after Saturday's dive during low tide, I can vouch that getting up onto that bottom step during low tide is really difficult. We actually had people standing on the bottom step helping us out of the water.

Plus, with the rocks about 10 and 15 feet from the bottom step, it makes for some precarious timing with the current so you don't end up slamming into them. (I almost got washed up into one at one point!) Could be trecherous. It was easier getting in though.

 

[MissyP]

Dr. Bill...after Saturday's dive during low tide, I can vouch that getting up onto that bottom step during low tide is really difficult. We actually had people standing on the bottom step helping us out of the water.

Plus, with the rocks about 10 and 15 feet from the bottom step, it makes for some precarious timing with the current so you don't end up slamming into them. (I almost got washed up into one at one point!) Could be trecherous. It was easier getting in though.

Yeah, I'm with Jodi.. We were pulling people up that weren't even in our group because they were having so much trouble... (the heavy surge wasn't helping much either~ the ugly bruise on my knee is a souvenir from the weekend lol). I do NOT like the lack of rocks~ at least they were something to hold onto and steady yourself with..

so did anyone ever figure out if the girl was a student, or already certified?

 

[Mr.X]

But, Mr.X., have you been here since the large rocks in front of the lower stairs were moved? I'm not sure whether this has made things easier or not... especially at low tide, since divers now have to lift themselves up out of the water. I've heard some concerns raised about this, but certainly the intent was very positive... and it is easier for most at moderate to high tide than it was.

Otter... I've been told by some instructors with some agencies that they are not supposed to exceed the required standards. I guess those skills are to be reserved for the next certification course. Since I'm not an instructor, and am not familiar with current standards for all agencies, I can only comment based on what I have heard. I know there are instructors with some agencies who require that students exceed the agency standards before they will certify them.

Hi Bill...I do remember that the larger rocks were gone and that it was an easier in-and-out vs. a few years ago? My favorite setup rock was the upright rock near the tideline. The late Jon Hardy showed me that one! The tides didn't seem to matter much to my students as we had practiced exits and entries (a lot) before going to the Casino. However, when stronger wave sets came in it did bother some divers not used to getting pushed by waves.

As per standards...you can always exceed them within reason. The RSTC / WRSTC set standards for a few big agencies. I would say that the instructors I saw having difficulties at the Casino danced on the edge of making it difficult for themselves, as well as for their students.

I can imagine an instructor gaining student referrals from who knows where? The midwest etc. Whatever the students are, it is incumbent upon the instructor to take the time and effort to conduct remedial work if it is deemed necessary prior to putting them in the water. If I had a referral I'd make sure to vet them in confined water before taking them into a live environment. You can quasi-do-this in snorkeling gear before donning full scuba gear at the Casino.

The worst instructors & students are the ones who just want to just finish, collect the fee/certification, go home, open a brew and call it a day. They may both be meeting standards, but only barely.

Cheers,

X