PADI's dive depth standards - Vague?

[Thalassamania]

There is not a "new" Master Diver Class, it is what it was designed to be ... NAUI Instructor academics sans teaching theory and group control. Yes the "old" Advanced course was more like the Master Diver Class than the "new" Advanced Course. Dumb-da-Dumb-Dumb.

 

[Walter]

Dang blame it Walter...You just made me an old guy But I must say I have just grown a beard for the first time in years...It's now white

Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time. Wear that white beard with pride, my friend. You earned it.

 

[Karibelle]

Darlin', my Spanish is a little rusty. All of the world is .......?

I like the answers the translators came up with. What I mean when I say that is "everyone is a beginner some time."

While I've never met you and our contacts have been limited, I've already seen enough that you have earned my respect and I strongly suspect you'll earn more as time goes by. You are new to diving as we all were at one time, but you have a spark not found in all folks new or experienced. You are sharp, you're willing to look at different angles and you even made me see a new wrinkle on PADI's order of presentation. For that, I sincerely thank you. I still strongly disagree with that order of presentation, but you've given me a new insight that I believe will be beneficial in my future. I hope as time goes on we become friends and eventually get the opportunity to share a dive. I expect goods things from you.

Why, thank you sir. I have enjoyed the discussions to date, and expect that we'll have many more in the future! I have found (and continue to do so) that I learn something new from each instructor I interact with even those I disagree vehemently with. I've reached the realization that if I haven't learned something, I'm just not finished with that person yet.

kari

I like the answers the translators came up with. What I mean when I say that is "everyone is a beginner some time."

 

[mstevens]

The NAUI Advanced course never was what NAUI Master Diver is, completely different things.

Nope, I just rechecked. When my wife's Advanced card from 1982 broke in half, they replaced it with a Master Diver card. The NAUI website also has a crosswalk from the old to the new certs which also reflects that. Back in '82 it took a full college semester and a lot of dives to get that cert.

 

[mstevens]

There is not a "new" Master Diver Class, it is what it was designed to be ... NAUI Instructor academics sans teaching theory and group control. Yes the "old" Advanced course was more like the Master Diver Class than the "new" Advanced Course.

Right. Our course involved instructing the Open Water students under supervision, doing pool drills with them, etc. We each had to prepare and present several lectures for the OW class. We were told we could get either Advanced or Assistant Instructor certs at the end of the course. Since the fee for the latter was much higher and we knew we'd never instruct (and had just taken the course to get more theory and experience) we went for the Advanced cards. As I said, they now replace Advanced cards from that era with Master.

It doesn't matter that much - my original point was that I'd initially assumed incorrectly that after enough years of diving, differences in knowledge would even out between divers with different levels of instruction.

 

[J.R.]

You are correct about narcosis. Its effects are actually measurable as shallow as 30 feet. Narcosis is one of the reasons some agencies keep their recommended depth limit at 130 feet and why others have their recommended depth limit at 100 feet.

As one who earlier on mentioned PPO2... and after reading some other posts... particularly Walters... I went back to my NAUI Nitrox book for a self refresher... sure enough... there it wuz'... 2nd paragraph, page 33. "The effect of narcosis can be measured at shallower depths, but they becom more pronounced when the partial pressure of nitrogen is approaching 4 atmospheres, which is about 40 msw (132 fsw) when breathing air."

So... I screwed up...

Note to self: ... next time... don't trust memory... ya' got books, use the dang things...

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

As for PADI Scuba Diver - one person that failed entirely to complete 2 OW skills. Scuba diver was given to them so they got something instead of nothing. Its not something i think someone should aim at the start to get!

Just to be picky, going back nearly 16hrs, Scuba Diver certification requires the student to complete the performance requirements of OW dive #2. If the student failed entirely to complete 2 OW skills, gifting this student with a Scuba Diver cert is a standards violation, as well as just plain stupid!

 

[Thalassamania]

Nope, I just rechecked. When my wife's Advanced card from 1982 broke in half, they replaced it with a Master Diver card. The NAUI website also has a crosswalk from the old to the new certs which also reflects that. Back in '82 it took a full college semester and a lot of dives to get that cert.

I don’t doubt the value of the class and indeed the old Advanced Diver course was closer to the current Master Diver than it is to the current Advanced. But replacement cards or even NAUI’s current opinion not withstanding, I would be remiss to not stand by my original statement, “The NAUI Advanced course never was what NAUI Master Diver is, completely different things.”

Right. Our course involved instructing the Open Water students under supervision, doing pool drills with them, etc. We each had to prepare and present several lectures for the OW class. We were told we could get either Advanced or Assistant Instructor certs at the end of the course. Since the fee for the latter was much higher and we knew we'd never instruct (and had just taken the course to get more theory and experience) we went for the Advanced cards. As I said, they now replace Advanced cards from that era with Master.

You hit the nail on the head. It was to solve exactly this problem that the Master Diver course was proposed and developed. The problem was twofold:

1. there was no defined program to provide the academic and skills training to the level expected of a NAUI Instructor, the only way to get there was by mentoring from the AI level or a PDC.
2. there were many divers who had no interest in teaching who desired to reach (and be recognized as having reached) that level.

It doesn't matter that much - my original point was that I'd initially assumed incorrectly that after enough years of diving, differences in knowledge would even out between divers with different levels of instruction.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[String]

Just to be picky, going back nearly 16hrs, Scuba Diver certification requires the student to complete the performance requirements of OW dive #2. If the student failed entirely to complete 2 OW skills, gifting this student with a Scuba Diver cert is a standards violation, as well as just plain stupid!

They failed 2 skills post OW2 but met requirements for scuba diver.
The other common one was theory and failing tables.

 

[shadragon]

Here is what we've learned so far.

PADI’s Recreational Depth limit is 130’ (40m)

Standards applied by Individual Dive Master(s) and some Dive Operations are generally:
PADI OW – Depth limit 60’ (18m)
PADI AOW - Depth limit 100’ (30m)

I just read the entire thread and the one course that has gone un-mentioned to this point is:
PADI Deep Diver - Depth Limit 130' (40M)

There are viable physiological reasons to not go below 40M - 132' as have already been discussed. This is why it is a "hard bottom" for several agencies and resorts plus what I have read the US Navy as well.

The PADI training seems to encourage stepped exposures to deeper depths as training, experience and personal comfort level dictate. I find nothing wrong with that and did my OW, AOW and Deep courses in that order. On my Deep Diver course I went to 123' and have been no where near that depth since.

Safety has to be encouraged and gradual exposure to deeper dives in a controlled training environment is a good way of acclimatizing people.