PADI vs NAUI

[Thalassamania]

The basic point is being missed, there seems to be a series of assumptions:

1. every PADI course is the same as every other PADI course, and
2. every NAUI course is the same as every other NAUI course, and
3. since a given NAUI course is very much like a PADI course ...

it therefore follows that all NAUI courses are the same as all PADI courses, and the only differences are the minor variations that an instructor might bring to the proigram.

There is, in fact, a major error contained in those statements.

1. Yes, every PADI course is much the same as every other PADI course, that is part of PADI's design. They have striven to remove the individual instructor variation from their programs as much as possible.
2. No, every NAUI course is not like every other NAUI course. NAUI standards are minimum standards, within guidelines an instructor can add almost anything he or she wants to the NAUI program, this makes NAUI programs the mainstay of college and university programs as well as programs run by organizations such as government agencies and the military.
3. So, while within the confines of a single shop, that is running primarily PADI programs, they may also offer a NAUI program that is very similar and likely appears (to a new student) identical to their PADI program, because (with a few minor additions) the PADI course meets the bare NAUI minimum standards, that is an isolated circumstance, not at all illustrative of normal practices.

Most NAUI programs out there are not offered by Instructors who work for facilites that also offer PADI programs (PADI actively discourages this practice), and thus it is the exception, rather than the rule, to have a NAUI program that so closely resembles a PADI one.

 

[cflJason]

I have to agree with the "it depends on the instructor" statement. My wife had quite the opposite experience from your relative. She went through NAUI for her first two certifications, then saw a couple of PADI courses being conducted and decided they were better than the training she had received. She received a couple of PADI certs since then and is working on her DM now.

 

[Thalassamania]

I have to agree with the "it depends on the instructor" statement. My wife had quite the opposite experience from your relative. She went through NAUI for her first two certifications, then saw a couple of PADI courses being conducted and decided they were better than the training she had received. She received a couple of PADI certs since then and is working on her DM now.

All that you could possibly garner from your wife's experience is that she thought that the program put on by the PADI Instructor was "better" than the training that she had received previously.

There is neither programmatic nor statistical support for her conclusions with respect to anything outside of the programs she experienced, even if we were to stipulate that she was correct with respect to those programs.

 

[pollywogg]

NAUI is Yoshinkan, PADI is Aikiki

 

[Thalassamania]

In the sense that O Sensi taught Yoshinkan, and the it is, "original," your analogy is correct, but in the sense that Aikiki (I think you meant Aikika) was the original organization that promulgated Aikido and the was the parent organization for the development and popularization of aikido throughout the world (making it more CMAS than PADI) you analogy falls badly apart.

If you had to fit PADI into such a framework you'd have to view it as being about as combat ready as the World Cup IDF International Ranking Competition (an organization that claims to crown the world champion hip hop dancers each year).

 

[BDSC]

I have to agree with the "it depends on the instructor" statement. My wife had quite the opposite experience from your relative. She went through NAUI for her first two certifications, then saw a couple of PADI courses being conducted and decided they were better than the training she had received. She received a couple of PADI certs since then and is working on her DM now.

One of my good dive buddies and his wife had a somewhat similar experience. He was certified about 9 or 10 years ago with NAUI. He got married a few years ago and last year his wife decided to get certified. The local shop, like most around here, are PADI and so she signed up for the OW course. She was rather nervous about getting certified so her husband studied the course material with her and went with her to the pool sessions and with her when she did the OW dives. His wife passed the course with no problems.

Naturally his wife and he have had discussions about the difference in their training. From his perspective, he didn't see any real difference at all. Pretty much what he learned was exactly what she learned. All the basic skills and course material was the same. But what he did comment on was he thought his wifes instructor was excellent and better than the instructor he had. The instructor made sure each student was able to perform all the skills with ease and worked extra with anyone who was having difficulty. My buddy also said the instructor had excellent people skills and was able to put his wifes nervous feelings at ease almost immediately.

The bottom line he said was he felt overall his wifes training was actually better than the training he had received. When I asked him why he thought it was better he said quite naturally, "Her instructor was better than mine."

So when lots and lots of people come on the forums like this and say "It's the instructor and not the agency", there is a good reason for it. That really is what it comes down to.

 

[pollywogg]

No sir, I in fact meant Aikiki(or, if you must, Aikikai), but I cetainly did not mean Aikika. More than the fact that, arguably, both NAUI and Kancho Sensei did many things to develop their respective arts, and bring them to the world. I'm talking about control. I was trained by an ex-navy NAUI instructor. Now, to qualify this, he was training me to dive with/for him, so he might have had higher standards, but I feel that my training is the best. I feel prepared for any situation that could conceivably be thrown at me. While I have had no PADI classes, I have seen ALOT of scary PADI divers. Simple day one things: Keeping streamlined, not letting your gear drag along a reef, having enough buoyancy control(and sense) to avoid crawling along the bottom, having limited to 0 knowledge of tables in general(much less PADI tables), not being able to don/doff without assistance. These are all things that would have kept me(and my girlfriend, amongst others that he has trained) from being certified. I have yet to see a newly trained NAUI diver have issue with these topics, in my admittedly limited experience.

 

[BDSC]

While I have had no PADI classes, I have seen ALOT of scary PADI divers. Simple day one things: Keeping streamlined, not letting your gear drag along a reef, having enough buoyancy control(and sense) to avoid crawling along the bottom, having limited to 0 knowledge of tables in general(much less PADI tables), not being able to don/doff without assistance.

My curiosity has the best of me. How did you know all the people you were seeing were PADi divers? Did you ask them all after the dives you were on with them what agency certified them? How about the tables. Did you get into discussions with them about the PADI tables and what their knowledge base was?

I've been on lots of boat/shore dives and I don't ever remember people holding up their hands when someone asks which agency they belonged to or discussing the PADI tables. Most have computers. But of course that has been my experience as well as most of the people I know. I wasn't on the dives you were on so you could very well have discussed all these things after the dives. Not likely but it could have happened.

 

[pollywogg]

I speak to them, obviouosly. The main training ground around here is the Blue Heron Bridge. There are many divers out there. I strike up conversations, and I have also buddied with them. I somehow forgot to buy my super-duper PADI spotting glasses, so, you know I gotta do it the old-fashioned way and talk to them..... and as far as tables go, I just think it is scary to use a compouter but not be able to plan a dive or use a table. That's just MHO.

 

[BDSC]

OK. That clears it up for me. So then you just assumed that if someone uses a computer they have "0 to limited knowledge of tables".

Thanks.