PADI vs NAUI

[Cacia]

I would agree that it is up to you who you certify.

 

[Thalassamania]

I would agree that it is up to you who you certify.

That is the current topic, you see PADI does not agree with you.

 

[Cacia]

Yes, it is a business that wants to sell materials....and they want to sell them the next set.
Hey, I am a certified boat diver, I know the deal. lol

 

[Brendon]

He is not the only one. I have turned away AOW students who had poor attitudes towards safety and the requirements for the class. My students are a direct reflection on me. Their skills, knowledge, and yes attitude towards diving. Any instructor who feels differently might want to reconsider using the " dive professional" moniker because they are not. I had one potential OW student who wanted a quick class and felt that the additional skills required for a cert from our agency were not necessary. I tried to explain why we have the standards we do. In the end I told him go find someone else. If during a class a student developed a poor attitude he/she would either adjust that or the class would be over. No refund, no referral. Just a go away. It is in my learning agreement.

BTW - alcoholic? Good bye and if you show up drunk the cops will be waiting when you try to drive home. Smoke Pot?- cops will be waiting when you show up.

I agree with everything you said... Except the smoking pot part, thats just harsh man. I would never call the cops on someone for smoking pot. With or with out a prescription its a personal choice and not one for the government or citizens to interfere with. I don't smoke anymore, and I would not dive with someone who was high. However if someone lit up after their last dive I would have no issue with it, assuming they were not driving...

 

[Puffer Fish]

Walter, Will take this from theory to actual events. I had a student that passed every test given him, but he did not care about concerns with time and depth. He did the tables easily, never missed a question on the tests...did all his skills. Just on a personal level, did not want to bother keeping track of things. I did not certify him.....so he went to another instructor from an agency that certified based on passing all the skills and tests and was certifed.

Three months later he had a DCS hit and just under 6 months later he died while attempting a free ascent from over 110 ft.

I got reminded of this sort of person this last weekend, where I got to see my second case of it.

Not necessarily. Imagine a bright, talented student with a very bad attitude. He aces all the quizes and tests, he gets every skill perfectly every time, but he brags about all the things he's going to do once he gets his c-card. His plans include solo to 300+ feet on an AL 80 right after class is over. In my opinion, this kid isn't safe. I can refuse to certify him based on his attitude alone. If I were teaching a PADI class, I would be required to issue the certification.



I agree with you on this.

 

[BDSC]

I am so depressed now. I was certified through PADI and always thought they were the "Cream of the Crop" agency. After all, if you go to their website you read stuff like this:

"The Way the World Learns to Dive"

and

"PADI Divers carry the most respected and sought after scuba credentials in the world."

Did I just drink the Kool Aid? Where is DCBC anyway? Is he still posting? Perhaps he could shed some light on this.

 

[Brendon]

I am so depressed now. I was certified through PADI and always thought they were the "Cream of the Crop" agency. After all, if you go to their website you read stuff like this:

"The Way the World Learns to Dive"

and

"PADI Divers carry the most respected and sought after scuba credentials in the world."

Did I just drink the Kool Aid? Where is DCBC anyway? Is he still posting? Perhaps he could shed some light on this.

Oh Yeah... You drank the Kool Aid.. Though you can always take your next class with NAUI.

 

[Thalassamania]

Oh Yeah... You drank the Kool Aid.. Though you can always take your next class with NAUI.

I truly wish that solution could be guaranteed to solve the problem. Unfortunately it can not. Moving along a one dimensional line from PADI to NAUI (or any of the other "majors") does not mean that what you will get (at least in this day and age) will be substantially different. The difference is more likely in details, like swim tests, a free dive and a few rescue skills, very little else. So, are we are back to that old saw of, "it's the instructor, not the agency?" Like most over-simplifications the answer is yes ... and no.

If all courses are pretty much the same, use the same text, the same review questions, the same cue cards, the same exams, the same videos, then what variability there is results solely from the innate ability of each student and the little bit that the instructor can add to or detract from the class (let's call that "style"). This is basically the PADI situation, though a significant (I think) change in grade is going on with the introduction of doing skills while up off the bottom - but we'll have to see if that catches on.

On the other hand, if the courses are very different, use different texts, different review questions, different pool skills, different openwater skills, different exams, different (or no) videos, then there is likely to be a great deal more variability, in addition to that resulting from the innate ability of each student, and instructor's style. This is basically, in theory, the NAUI situation, but not really since many (but my no means all) NAUI classes are, today, little more that PADI classes with an extra dive thrown in.

So what needs to be done is to compare these two "systems" and make a decision as to which is "best." One view would say that if the second alternative has a minimum set of standards that exceeds the rather precisely defined and controlled content of the first, if combined with a very rigorous instructor qualification and training process, then even the worst of the second will be at least as good as the best of the first; and the best of the second will be much better than any of the first.

Another view is that in the first system everything is very predictable, is designed and vetted by experts, so the student is protected both from the very weak instructor (who is propped up by the completeness of a system that in the extreme really only needs a monkey turning the crank to make it work) as well as from the wild-assed instructor who might do unreasonable and dangerous things that have not been carefully thought out and considered.

The "car dealer" analogy is often used where PADI is compared to GM and NAUI to some fancier marquee. I'm not sure that today that holds, the best that can be said is that both agencies are pushing chevys, PADI has pushed the Mercedes and similar cars off their lot and thus they are more often found on the NAUI lot, but they by no means constitute the majority.

The bottom line, as I see it, is that while the average value of the instructional programs conducted under the auspices of the two agencies are significantly different, the median value is not likely to be.

 

[Brendon]

Thalassmania,

All of that from one line... My point being "biased" as a NAUI instructor, was to go somewhere else if your not happy. It could be with in the same agency I just want you,him, reader etc. to " come to the dark side luke.." I don't hate anyone, but I do hate some things, one of which is PADI. Makes me nauseous every time I say it, read it, write it...ugh yuk.

 

[Thalassamania]

Brendon, let's face facts. There was a time when there was a massive difference between NAUI and PADI. First was when PADI was handing out instructor certificates for $10 to anyone with a story and then when PADI had it's purge and lost many of it's best and most creative instructors. But as NAUI dismembered the Branch system and destroyed it's Branch ITCs in an ill-advised, and ill-considered, attempt to keep up the key element, rigorous qualification of instructors as experts was lost.