Padi To Naui Crossover

[The Chairman]

This can be considered part of the "prep course" rigdiver.

However, Louma has it down! Take the tests if you dare.

 

[renpirate]

In regards to who can assist with NAUI classes, S&P Manual(rev. 04) is a bit vague in some areas.

In Section 2.17 as regards ratios. It only mentions NAUI members(leadership level DM, AI, SDI w/scuba cert, and Inst.) as being able to assist and affecting ratios in confined water. However, in open water it states:

"NAUI Leader, Instructor members, or other agency members with corresponding ratings may be used as certified assistants and only counted toward open water training ratios if in active status."

In Section 2.5 Certified Scuba Assisstants are defined as:

"An individual who has completed a designated NAUI course and is registered with NAUI, to include: Inst., SDI, AI, Training Assistant, or DM. Leadership members of other NAUI recognized training organizations also qualify."

Training Assistant is a NAUI course and does allow for assistance in courses, but not in counting towards ratios. As stated above, a person must be registered with NAUI to be a Certified Scuba Assisstant, meaning they would have had to take this course if they were not a NAUI member or equivalent and be registered with NAUI.

Since Master Diver is not a NAUI member, nor is PADI Master Diver a NAUI leadership equivalent, they would not count towards ratios or be counted as certified assisstants.

We had a big discussion on this issue in my ITC.


On another note, Section 2.76:

"After assissting an active-status NAUI Instructor with at least one complete NAUI Scuba Diver Course, a current NAUI Assisstant Instructor is qualified, if all other prerequisites are met, to enter a NAUI Instructor Training Course(ITC)."

It does recommend DM, but does not require it.

To the original poster, I recommend taking the DM course. It really is worth it. As has been mentioned, you just have to pass the Master Diver test to qualify. However, the test really is difficult.

A note to the other instructors. My post is meant purely to provide the most up to date information and in no way is meant as a knock at anyones experience and knowledge.

 

[ronbeau]

I knew you would not miss another opportunity to bash PADI Walter, welcome to this thread...

Obviously NAUI thinks it's more important to have their AI's (who actually interact with students) have less experience than PADI who structures their AI certifications so that those interacting with students have more experience...

Personally, I think that any certification involving student instruction should require more experience, not less. That's just me though...

I have no intention of getting into a religious debate about certifying organization "A" is better than certifying organization "B". That is totally counter-productive.

Having said that I don't believe Walter is "PADI bashing" at all. He is simply relating the fact that PADI and NAUI have two different paths to a certification with a common name.

The PADI progression is Dive Master then AI while NAUI is AI then Dive Master.

I feel the instructor makes the largest difference. I have both a PADI certification and 3 NAUI certifications.

I have had instructors that were certified as instructors by both PADI and NAUI. Those instructors indicated that they preferred teaching the NAUI program since it allowed them flexibility in structuring the the course as long as they meet all of the NAUI requirements for the course. They said that PADI was very rigid in how the courses are to be taught. At no point did they say PADI was a bad organization.

For example, my instructors require a minimum score of 90% to pass any written certification exam (regardless of level). They still require a minimum 220 yard freestyle swim for the OW swim test. I have no problems with the additional requirements since they are acting in my best interest as a student. These same instructors seem to have infinite patience as long as the student sincerely wants to learn an put in the effort to so so. I know this from personal experience since I was one of the students at the beginning of OW training.

I am an adjunct college faculty member so I can appreciate the freedom to structure the course in the manner that you feel will best benefit the students. As a result I incorporate material into my courses based on 34 years of industry experience. My students really appreciate this and have indicated that it adds a lot to the value they receive from the course.

In summary, constructive comparison between the organizations can be instructive while religious crusades are not.


Please accept my apologies in advance for the length of this posting.

 

[Thalassamania]

It's Ok to do the crossover, and it shouldn't require any re MSD courses or exams. Someone who says so you do is not aware of the agreement between NAUI, PADI and all the major ones in the busines. At the instructor level there's exception bcs there are differencies in standards etc, but from MSD/DM level to AI it shouldn't be. I have been trained with CMAS, NAUI and PADI

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Dive-aholic]

Hey Guys ,

In response to the helping out teaching the class, let me rephrase it to helping out in the pool doing poolwork and on dives. Is that ok to do?

It seems everyone is so caught up in their own conversations they've missed your post!

Again, what you're saying sounds like it's breaking standards. This is based on renpirate's posting of the NAUI standards. However, you're still being vague. What exactly are you doing? What is helping out in the pool doing poolwork and on dives?

 

[neil]

It's Ok to do the crossover, and it shouldn't require any re MSD courses or exams. Someone who says so you do is not aware of the agreement between NAUI, PADI and all the major ones in the busines. At the instructor level there's exception bcs there are differencies in standards etc, but from MSD/DM level to AI it shouldn't be. I have been trained with CMAS, NAUI and PADI

To my knowledge there is no agreement between NAUI and any other certification agency about ANYTHING. There is no such thing as a "crossover" for anything other than instructor certifications.

 

[Walter]

To my knowledge there is no agreement between NAUI and any other certification agency about ANYTHING. There is no such thing as a "crossover" for anything other than instructor certifications.

There is one other crossover of which I'm aware. YMCA will conduct a crossover to SLAM (SCUBA Lifesavind and Accident Management) of divers with Rescue certifications from other agencies. With most requirements, YMCA will accept certifications from other agencies - PADI/NAUI/SSI, etc. OW card to take advanced. When SLAM is required, SLAM is required, a Rescue cert from another agency cannot be substituted. The SLAM crossover is available to give partial credit for the Rescue certificaion.

I've heard of very few agreements between agencies either. YMCA and CMAS is a rare exception. Anyone with a YMCA card can be automatically (upon proof of certification and payment of fee) be certified with CMAS. Agencies routinely recognize certifications from other agencies - no agreement is required.

 

[swifty]

Again, what you're saying sounds like it's breaking standards. This is based on renpirate's posting of the NAUI standards. However, you're still being vague. What exactly are you doing? What is helping out in the pool doing poolwork and on dives?

as far as the helping out goes, making sure all the students have gear assembled properly before dives, assist them with getting properly weighted and stuff like that...

 

[renpirate]

In response to you original question, technically, yes you can go straight to AI.

Prerequisites:
Certification as NAUI Master Scuba Diver and NAUI Scuba Rescue Diver or their eqivalent. Divers with evidence of equivalent training and experience may be enrolled provided they pass the NAUI Master and Rescue Scuba Diver written examination with minimum scores of at least 75% on each. NAUI S&P Rev.1-04 Pg. 2.77

However, one thing you have to understand about NAUI is that our standards are minimums only. Instructors may require higher standards and will be fully backed by NAUI. So, yes the standards say it is possible, but if your instructor requires that you do the NAUI Master Diver Course, then that is what you must do.

 

[terrasmak]

I agree with you about the experience, but I believe Walter's point is that about the only thing in common between PADI "Master Diver" and NAUI "Master Diver" is the name.

PADI Master Diver is attained by taking a certain number of specialty classes. NAUI Master Diver is a pretty comprehensive course that focuses a great deal on the mechanics and physics of diving ... and frankly, the NAUI Master Diver exam is tough. Regardless of how many dives you have, if you don't work at it you won't pass the exam. And unless you pass the exam, you don't move into any leadership classes.

I have seen DM's and Instructors from other agencies fail the exam ... because despite their knowledge and diving experience, most agencies don't put the emphasis on diving physics and physiology that NAUI does ... they focus more on the "how" than on the "why" ... and if you come into the class thinking that it'll be a breeze because of your experience, you probably are in for a surprise.

To answer the OP's question ... you don't have to take the NAUI Master Diver course to go to AI, but you do have to pass the Master Diver exam. If your instructor feels you have the requisite knowledge and experience, he (or she) can opt to give you the exam as part of the AI class. If you pass the exam, you can then focus on the leadership skills for AI.

In any event, Master Diver certified divers are not allowed (by NAUI Standards and Procedures) to assist in teaching a class. To do that you must be at least an AI. If all you're doing is schlepping gear or some other physical activity, I don't see any standards violation ... but any teaching, demonstration, or evaluation activity must be conducted by someone properly certified in a NAUI Leadership course ... and that is AI and above.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I wasnt bashing Padi earlier , just trying to say what Grateful diver just did without all the extra typing.