PADI TecRec

[chickdiver]

Self and Buddy rescue techniques should be taught at each and every level of training, appropriate to the level of training, in both recreational and techinical classes. Rescue information and scenarios should not be confined to a single course, that is ridiculous.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Self and Buddy rescue techniques should be taught at each and every level of training, appropriate to the level of training, in both recreational and techinical classes. Rescue information and scenarios should not be confined to a single course, that is ridiculous.

Yes. And not just rescue techniques but the kind of problem management that avoids the need for the rescue in the first place.

the industry spends too much time and effort telling every one how safe diving is and not enough making sure that it actually is safe.

 

[boomx5]

here's an account of a rescue Andrew Georgitsis did during a Tech1 class. I know it's been posted on here before, but I thought I would repost it anyway.

~Scott

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On this list, in our GUE classes, and within our projects we have
consistently reiterated that divers must carefully identify the true risk
of a given dive. With gas diving, oxygen toxicity remains the most
consistent and yet often under appreciated risk. Irresponsible mixing,
convoluted marking/procedures, and careless divers are almost exclusively
the culprit in these cases. The following actual account depicts an all too
common over confidence that nearly cost one diver their life. I encourage
everyone to read this report and to appreciate the risk to which divers
expose themselves and their team.

While conducting a Tech 1 in Croatia this last week we were faced with the
following incident, one that should prove educational to all. It is for
this reason that we wanted to bring it public attention. The course was
conducted in Croatia, on an Island called Pag. The initial part of the
training, DIR fundamentals and critical skills went well, with students
undergoing training with myself and Richard Lundgren. After two days of
fundamentals and 4 days of critical skills training, we were ready to move
forward to the experience portion of the class. During this portion, the
students plan and execute two dives to a max depth of 36 m, on a 30/30
triox mix and decompress on Nitrox 50.

The logistics of the course were coordinated by the local dive facility.
The owner of the facility was involved with the class. Upon returning from
the sixth day of training, Diver X who also is the facility owner, began
the nightly filling process for the next day of diving. Oddly enough in
Croatia, the same valve fitting (threads) is used for all gases,
facilitating confusion for those that are not properly vigilant. In fact,
diver X confused the supply bottles, accidentally filling oxygen instead of
Helium into his own back tanks. Failing to heed the directions of his
instructors to properly analyze his gasses, diver X marked all his
cylinders as analyzed while, in fact, his back tanks were never analyzed.
Clearly such a mistake placed the diver and his team at tremendous risk; in
this instance it almost cost him his life. Individuals must bear in mind
that these actions do not occur in a vacuum, and that rescuers and other
team members are compromised when they must take extreme actions to
safeguard the safety of other members.

Following the execution of all pre-dive drills (conducted in seven minutes)
both groups proceeded with their dive. Nineteen minutes into the dive,
Diver X gently flashed me with his light to get my attention. He pulled his
regulator out of his mouth (as if he was giving me an OOA) but instead
began to convulse at 36m. I immediately donated my regulator, grabbed his
harness (with my left hand) and tried to put a regulator in his mouth. His
convulsions were very strong and I could not initially get the regulator in
his mouth. I proceeded to swim him closer to the wall to avoid being swept
away by the current. Diver X convulsed for a solid two minutes. We then
started up, my right arm under his right arm, holding him firmly while
keeping the regulator in his mouth. During this process I tried to remain
conscious of maintaining an open airway.

We then proceed up, with the help of my assistant, controlling all buoyancy
with my left hand. It took about one minute to reach 17m; there Diver X
began to convulse again. Following this convulsion I slowly led him to the
surface. Upon surfacing, I called for the surface support boat, which
initiated an emergency response. I removed my mask and his and prepared to
start mouth-to-mouth breathing. Fortunately he was breathing, making this
unnecessary. We then removed his gear and put him on the Zodiac.

Upon establishing that all divers were safely at the surface with no need
for additional decompression, we decided to start back to the dock, where
we could meet the ambulance. During the ride to shore, Diver X began to
come around, his color improved and his breathing became more rhythmic. We
administered oxygen during the return trip to the dock and by the time we
had arrived, he was feeling and looking much better. Upon reaching the dock
the ambulance took over, taking him to the hospital for further testing.
Further testing proved that there was no lung damage or bends and only as a
precaution did they treat him for near drowning.

Subsequent analysis proved that Diver X's cylinders had been improperly
marked. At this point we re-analyzed all diving cylinders, demonstrating
that the only improper marking had been on Diver X's cylinders. It turns
out that although his tanks were marked for 30/30 he was, in fact,
breathing 50.1%.

Although this event ended well it was clearly filled with dangerous
potential. All divers should use this as yet another example of the
importance in following careful procedures for gas analyzation and tank
marking. This must be the case whether they fill themselves or whether
others fill the tanks for them. In this particular case Diver X allowed his
personal filling of the tanks and the accuracy of the other mixes to induce
a false sense of confidence. The diver later told me that he is keenly
aware of his error, embarrassed by his arrogance and grateful to be alive.
It is my hope that this account will help others realize that short cuts
often fail and seemingly impossible things can and do occur. Ignoring the
proper procedures can cause an accident very quickly.

Andrew Georgitsis
GUE Training Director

 

[J1M1]

However, I think that joe average would probably forget this in the heat of the moment. remember that most of our human instincts are completely wrong when talking about diving, hence the neet to act rather than react.

this is very true. i dive with someone who i trust will react. hope others do the same but i wont know until the situation happens. A very good point though and could go under a new post on it's own J.D.

 

[MikeFerrara]

A procedure that I stole from my former trimix instructor is to have every one analyze gasses just prior to diving even if it's already been done individually. The results all go on a log and every one signs off on every one elses analysis. Remember some of you're team mates gas may end up being for you.

This helps to avoid any one having the wrong gas and also provides documentation.

 

[theskull]

Hi all,
Just popping in at this point to say that I am very much enjoying this discussion. It is unusually civil given the strong feelings most have regarding what is "right" at this level of technical training. Thanks very much to those of you who have given well thought-out and reasoned arguments for your opinions and for keeping the name-calling and juvenile reactions to a minimum.
I am actually learning some points from this discourse and that, along with casual enteretainment, is the magnet that keeps drawing me back to this board.

theskull

 

[MikeFerrara]

If any one starts calling names I'll call a moderator.

 

[NEWreckDiver]

If any one starts calling names I'll call a moderator.

LOL, then I will take my ball and go home.

 

[Genesis]

My point, Mike, is that PADI markets and sells the "rescue" class as the "pinnacle" of recreational diver training, at least short of their screwy "master diver" card.

It is also true that ALL of the agencies, except for GUE, demand such a card before you can enroll in ANY tech class (Deco procedures, etc) GUE, however, rolls their "Rescue" into all their classes.

What I got VERY unhappy about in my rescue class was that PADI has completely discounted the possibility of a recreational diver taking a tox hit. That's a very nice belief, but its very untrue. It only takes ONE mistake mixing up a tank of "recreational" Nitrox to get nailed.

If a diver, underwater, is not breathing, the odds do not look good for him/her. While there are exceptions, such as Dr. Paul, the fact remains that if you stop breathing the clock is running. Even so, there is some time. If your heart has stopped (or is in Vfib) then the clock has about 4 mintues on it from that point - and there are very, very few exceptions to THAT one.

It is thus reasonable to conclude that if you find a diver unconscious you must first assess if there is a possibility that he has/is toxing or is tonic post-seizure. If that is true, you must wait until either the active seizure or tonic phase has passed, and you MUST get him something safe to breathe, because if he is toxing or has toxed, whatever he was breathing is almost certainly the cause! This only takes a few seconds, but if you don't check for this, and he is, you kill him by taking him to the surface every time.

And finding the guy in 30' of water is no guarantee. What if the tank has 100% in it? Yeah, I know, its not supposed to happen. Lots of things aren't supposed to happen but do anyway.

If he has no circulation there is almost no chance of you being able to save him. You proceed as if he does have circulation, because the alternative cannot be dealt with in the water, and it is essentially impossible to accurately assess if he DOES have a pulse underwater - that much I agree with.

What I disagree with is a protocol that says "take all divers you find unconscious to the surface immediately, and make no attempt to replace a lost reg."

That is PADI's mantra, and its dangerously wrong until/unless you first eliminate the possibility that the victim just took an O2 hit. Indeed, if a reg is missing I can come up with no reason NOT to put one with a known safe breathing mix in the diver's mouth. If his airway is full of water, it won't hurt him in any event to have a SOURCE of gas in his mouth that remains unused. If its NOT, and he spontaneously begins breathing at any time from when you find him until you get him to the surface and begin rescue breathing or CPR, there had better be a reg in there or you've now drowned him.

I call BS on both of those aspects of the "priestly sermon" in this regard; if I find you on the bottom unconscious and not breathing your mouth WILL have a source of breathable gas in it momentarily (my long hose, most probably), and I WILL assess if you are seizing or tonic post-seizure before I raise you from your present depth. If you're dead, you'll stay dead. But if you're alive, and start breathing again, I damn sure want to be certain that the first breath you take is one of air, not seawater - and that you STAY alive.

 

[J1M1]

i hope my buddy will react as you will Genesis if something were to happen to me. We discuss the subjct thouroughly togethar but wil never know until the siutation arises. But yes you are correst. You MUST take into account the fact that the diver may have taken an o2 hit. otherwise you will kill him anyway on the ascent. At least you should have a safe breathing gas in his mouth. VERY good points...I have also been trying to advocate the use of an analyzer even for recreational mixes such as air. Who knows what the dive shop could have filled in the tank you asked for air in? I think recreational training should start advocating this also regardless of the breathing gas.