PADI tables finally going away?

[boulderjohn]

I don't see why PADI (or anyone else for that matter) would stop teaching tables. They seem a pretty easy way to explain NDLs, surface intervals, etc.

.

Have you read much of this thread?

There are easier and more effective ways to teach NDLs and surface intervals. Tables are not the only way.

 

[Goannaman]

Have you read much of this thread?

There are easier and more effective ways to teach NDLs and surface intervals. Tables are not the only way.

I'm fairly sure I didn't say that they were the only way. I think that they are AN easy way. I don't think it is a bad thing to learn to read tables.

I personally don't think tables should be taken out of open water standards. Just my opinion. That doesn't mean don't teach computer basics as well, but when you teach only computers, congratulations, you have justed added ~$250.00 to the minimum equipment required to dive.

As a person who got certified at 15, diving well used hand me down gear, and renting for a long time, I would have been unable to dive without tables. I imagine there are others in that position today.

Maybe this is a bit "get off my lawn whippersnapper" but I don't see any advantage to not teaching tables.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I'm fairly sure I didn't say that they were the only way. I think that they are AN easy way. I don't think it is a bad thing to learn to read tables.

But the really aren't an easy way to teach the necessary concepts.

The argument about economics is kind of specious. If you can't afford a couple hundred for a basic computer, then you're likely renting gear anyway. And if you're renting gear, you can rent a computer too.

 

[Goannaman]

But the really aren't an easy way to teach the necessary concepts.

The argument about economics is kind of specious. If you can't afford a couple hundred for a basic computer, then you're likely renting gear anyway. And if you're renting gear, you can rent a computer too.

Even assuming rental computers are widely available, it is an extra cost that isn't required. Renting a computer one time costs more than buying a table (unless the places you rent from include them with rental regs)

Look, I'm not a luddite. I use a computer on every dive, I advocate teaching basic computer principles at the OW level, but what compelling argument is there for not teaching tables?

 

[The Chairman]

Look, I'm not a luddite. I use a computer on every dive, I advocate teaching basic computer principles at the OW level, but what compelling argument is there for not teaching tables?

Here are four:

• Divers refuse to use them.
• They are prone to user error on every dive.
• They are not needed to understand deco theory.
• Teaching them takes time away from other, more compelling subjects.

The whole thread is chock full of reasons why mandating tables is foolish. I teach them only if the student requests them.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I'll add another reason:

They are not the best way to teach deco theory and tying theory to tables perpetuates a mis-understanding (demonstrated repeatedly in this thread) about what deco theory is and is not. Which is not to say one cannot teach tables and deco theory well within the same class. It is saying that a common mistake when teaching tables is to fail to separate the topics sufficiently in the minds of the students.

 

[tomfcrist]

Here are four:

• Divers refuse to use them.
• They are prone to user error on every dive.
• They are not needed to understand deco theory.
• Teaching them takes time away from other, more compelling subjects.

The whole thread is chock full of reasons why mandating tables is foolish. I teach them only if the student requests them.

Time to chime in again....these are your opinions, and its your teaching style. Great!

Others have other opinions, and other teaching styles. Great!

Padi isn't getting rid of tables....Awesome!

Some agencies still REQUIRE tables to be taught(as in not optional).

Even after those agencies stop REQUIRING tables to be taught, some instructors will keep on teaching it, as they are a useful tool. Its kinda like breathing straight from a tank underwater(no reg attached)......Probably never have to do it, but its nice to know you can.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I'm fairly sure I didn't say that they were the only way. I think that they are AN easy way. I don't think it is a bad thing to learn to read tables.

I personally don't think tables should be taken out of open water standards. Just my opinion. That doesn't mean don't teach computer basics as well, but when you teach only computers, congratulations, you have justed added ~$250.00 to the minimum equipment required to dive.

As a person who got certified at 15, diving well used hand me down gear, and renting for a long time, I would have been unable to dive without tables. I imagine there are others in that position today.
. . .

But the really aren't an easy way to teach the necessary concepts.

The argument about economics is kind of specious. If you can't afford a couple hundred for a basic computer, then you're likely renting gear anyway. And if you're renting gear, you can rent a computer too.

As I've said before, if PADI would devise some globally acceptable way of teaching the concepts to which tables relate, then PADI could get rid of tables. But there are lots of dive regions in the world where computers are still not readily rentable, and teaching tools have to be fairly basic due to lack of resources. Tables remain a reasonable teaching tool, even if not very good, until PADI can replace them with something else that can be used worldwide--which will not be very soon.

 

[boulderjohn]

As I've said before, if PADI would devise some globally acceptable way of teaching the concepts to which tables relate, then PADI could get rid of tables. But there are lots of dive regions in the world where computers are still not readily rentable, and teaching tools have to be fairly basic due to lack of resources. Tables remain a reasonable teaching tool, even if not very good, until PADI can replace them with something else that can be used worldwide--which will not be very soon.

When I mentioned that I taught deco theory without any use of tables, I said that I used PowerPoint presentations. The reply was that some remote places do not have the technical ability to use PowerPoints. I did not respond then, but I will now.

First, PADI requires that students view either a video presentation or a DVD presentation. If they can do those, they can see a PowerPoint.

Next, you don't need a PowerPoint. I did pretty much the same thing with drawings on a whiteboard before I made the PowerPoints. You can also use pictures. You can even teach it without any visual aids of you really need to.

Mark Powell's Deco for Divers explains deco theory far beyond anything an OW diver needs to know with once showing how to use a table.

Not only is it possible to teach deco theory without tables, I believe using tables to teach deco theory is an inferior way to do it. If you know anything about interference theory, you will realize that if you are teaching two different things at once, learning one will interfere with learning the other. If you want to teach deco theory, then teach deco theory. Later on you can teach how to measure it, using whatever device you want. I believe that if you teach the two together, students will focus on the mechanism of using the tables and will not understand the theory behind them.

Finally, remember that it is an option. Students who don't want to buy a computer can use the tables. In fact, so far I have never taught a class that was computer only.

 

[mksmith713]

I think they should NEVER discuss computers, drop the eRDP and eRDP ML and spend 3 or 4 nights discussing the dive tables. The only decent information available on the effects of depth/time/SIT are in the tables.

What about those divers who are on vacation in Cancun or Playa or wherever and decide on the spur of the moment to do OW and get certified in 3 days?
I think that happens more often than classes with intructors that meet up weekly for lessons and discussions.
With the way things are going now, nearly everyone will be doing the book portion online with the dives referred out to Ops in tropical climes...
The instructors role will become less and less....especially dives shops in colder climates.