PADI tables finally going away?

[The Chairman]

How much planner do you really need for most recreational dive planning?

Spoiler

Not much, Chester!

 

[Kingpatzer]

No, I disagree. That's the only way you are ever going to teach them. If the user interface sucks, it won't be used.

The principles of computer usage I learned on my Apple Lisa apply directly to the MacBook Pro I'm typing this on now. I used my Lisa quite extensively, and I assure you the user interface sucked. Microsoft Windows 3.x didn't seem to have a growth problem even though the interface was horrendous.

User interface is an issue to be addressed, as better UIs will encourage usage and adoption. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the underlying functions and principles of using a tool.

Procedure is not process. What we're talking about is the process of using a computer to plan a dive, not the procedure of doing it on a specific computer. Certainly that should be covered by way of practical example for the student.

Adoption rates are certainly a concern. But given the fact that users are diving WITH computers, getting them to the point of using them to plan a dive is at least in some ways a closer goal than getting people to use tables, as those don't even go into the dive bag.

Again, I disagree. If you can't see the information on the little PDC displays most of us have today, then it won't be usable, which means it won't be used.

That's again a UI issue. And again I say that the experience of numerous companies producing a fantastic number of products in numerous market spaces shows that is simply isn't true. A better interface tends to diminish growth from market leaders, but bad user interfaces don't mean products aren't used. It does mean they are vulnerable to losing market share when a better UI comes along from a competitor. Ever wonder why Microsoft 7 looks so much like OSX?

The manufacturers of PDCs are eventually going to have to upgrade the LCD/LED/OLED displays.

have you seen the new Shearwaters?

Their prices on these components has been declining year after year; there is no excuse for not innovating where the new component prices aren't out of line with the older components they continue to use in their PDCs for sale today at dive ops all over the world.

There's not disagreement from me on this point. The component costs are way low compared to the sale prices. Someone is going to come along and shake this market up one of these days.

 

[John_B]

1) Expensive

2) It's good to 600 feet, so I don't think waterproof is a huge concern. :mooner:

I know the PDC is waterproof. But that only counts if the planning function on the PDC itself is full featured enough to use without a laptop computer.

The point I was trying to make was that, if you have to download your current dive profiles from your PDC to a laptop computer with vplanner, you're going to need a waterproof laptop of some variety. Laptops + tanks + boats seem to be a pretty bad idea generally, so I don't think running vplanner on a laptop is necessarily the answer -- even if you can get your dive profile downloaded from the PDC.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I know the PDC is waterproof. But that only counts if the planning function on the PDC itself is full featured enough to use without a laptop computer.

The point I was trying to make was that, if you have to download your current dive profiles from your PDC to a laptop computer with vplanner, you're going to need a waterproof laptop of some variety. Laptops + tanks + boats seem to be a pretty bad idea generally, so I don't think running vplanner on a laptop is necessarily the answer -- even if you can get your dive profile downloaded from the PDC.

We're not talking about any sort of diving that needs something like vplanner. We're talking about teaching decompression theory and dive planning to beginning OW students. The considerations necessary for dive planning for technical divers include a large number of functions that are not part of that process for beginning open water divers.

 

[Blackwood]

I know the PDC is waterproof...

My mistake. I've been skimming and thought you were referring to pc-based vplanner.

 

[Blackwood]

Ever wonder why Microsoft 7 looks so much like OSX?

The interface looks pretty much like it has since Windows NT4.0.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bd/Windows_7.png/750px-Windows_7.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Windows_NT_4.0.png

 

[John_B]

We're not talking about any sort of diving that needs something like vplanner. We're talking about teaching decompression theory and dive planning to beginning OW students. The considerations necessary for dive planning for technical divers include a large number of functions that are not part of that process for beginning open water divers.

We're off on a tangent because the only PDC that even remotely comes close to being able download dive profiles to a proper dive planning program is an ungodly expensive tech computer that downloads to tool that tech divers use to cut custom tables.

As I said earlier (repeatedly) if the tables are going to go away, they need to be replaced with a planning tool that lets you work out the same types of scenarios:

"Based on the dive I just finished, if my SI is 30 minutes and my next dive is to 80'..."

Otherwise its not dive planning, it's flying the NDL.

 

[Blackwood]

As I said earlier (repeatedly) if the tables are going to go away, they need to be replaced with a planning tool that lets you work out the same types of scenarios:

"Based on the dive I just finished, if my SI is 30 minutes and my next dive is to 80'..."

Don't most of them do that?

 

[The Chairman]

Who does a :30 SI? I check my limits just before I splash: Time, depth and gas. For the typical recreational diver, how much more planning do you really need? Are you safer knowing at the beginning or the end of your SI? Both are equally safe!

Plus, if you are diving tables, you can be SURE that your SI will be a lot longer or your dive a lot shorter than most any PDC. Give yourself 10 dives and you'll be able to anticipate the time before you check.

We're off on a tangent because the only PDC that even remotely comes close to being able download dive profiles to a proper dive planning program is an ungodly expensive tech computer that downloads to tool that tech divers use to cut custom tables.

As I said earlier (repeatedly) if the tables are going to go away, they need to be replaced with a planning tool that lets you work out the same types of scenarios:

"Based on the dive I just finished, if my SI is 30 minutes and my next dive is to 80'..."

Otherwise its not dive planning, it's flying the NDL.

 

[Peter Guy]

John B wrote

If the user interface sucks, it won't be used.

Pray tell JB, does not the "user interface" of most tables "suck" and that is why they aren't used? Methinks you've made THE point of why "teaching tables" will fade away.