PADI tables finally going away?
- Thread starter jgros79
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The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Tom,
you are taking this way too personally (emotionally). As I pointed out, you are in the status quo within our industry and THAT'S the problem. Too many in the industry want to teach a device which is shunned by the vast majority of divers after their class is done and they avoid teaching the very device most of their students will end up using.
When I first became a NAUI instructor at the beginning of this century, I was castigated for teaching in my Oceanic Chute II by a couple of my evaluators (I had 20+) since it was a back inflate BC with integrated weights. I was then asked by MB if my students would be wearing similar BCs. My response was "yes" and that the trend would continue since the ScubaQuest shop that I associated with sold them and had a few in rental. They used much of the same arguments that are being used here: What if they go where there are no back inflate, weight integrated BCs. The arguments seems so specious now.
The take away from that discussion was that we should be teaching students to use the gear they will be diving with, SO THAT they would be competent to dive with that gear. Given that we all agree that few divers utilize tables after their class, it is my rather strong opinion that we do a disservice to our students when we don't train the use of a PDC effectively. In fact, I see the relegation of your student learning how to use a PDC to them merely reading the manual as a gross dereliction of duty.
Please, go ahead and teach tables if you must, but be sure to train them how to use a PDC to effectively plan and execute dives. If you don't then please don't whine when you see people with PDCs failing to plan their dive before they splash. That's the way they were taught to use their PDC.
you are taking this way too personally (emotionally). As I pointed out, you are in the status quo within our industry and THAT'S the problem. Too many in the industry want to teach a device which is shunned by the vast majority of divers after their class is done and they avoid teaching the very device most of their students will end up using.
When I first became a NAUI instructor at the beginning of this century, I was castigated for teaching in my Oceanic Chute II by a couple of my evaluators (I had 20+) since it was a back inflate BC with integrated weights. I was then asked by MB if my students would be wearing similar BCs. My response was "yes" and that the trend would continue since the ScubaQuest shop that I associated with sold them and had a few in rental. They used much of the same arguments that are being used here: What if they go where there are no back inflate, weight integrated BCs. The arguments seems so specious now.
The take away from that discussion was that we should be teaching students to use the gear they will be diving with, SO THAT they would be competent to dive with that gear. Given that we all agree that few divers utilize tables after their class, it is my rather strong opinion that we do a disservice to our students when we don't train the use of a PDC effectively. In fact, I see the relegation of your student learning how to use a PDC to them merely reading the manual as a gross dereliction of duty.
Please, go ahead and teach tables if you must, but be sure to train them how to use a PDC to effectively plan and execute dives. If you don't then please don't whine when you see people with PDCs failing to plan their dive before they splash. That's the way they were taught to use their PDC.
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
Sorry but I have to call BS on this one. If a person is going to fail to "Plan the dive and Dive the plan" with a table, then they are just as likely (IMO) to fail to do so with a PDC. Nothing in "your" (not NetDoc himself here) training guarantees that that student will plan every single dive. So, to say that they failed to plan because they were taught that way is BS. It may be accurate in some cases but the blanket statement on your part is just for dramatics.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
They are more likely to plan a dive IF you teach them to use the equipment they will be diving with.
If you don't teach them to plan a dive on their PDC and in fact teach them that it can't be done, why would expect them to even try? Look at the instructors on here who see it as merely a brainless widgit that any moron could follow. We are our own worst enemy in this regard.
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
Definitely agree on that.....irrespective of table or PDC.
Who in this thread said that? Maybe this was a general statement for effect only but I do not recall seeing anybody state clearly that one cannot plan a dive on most computers (some may lack the function which is why I say most).
Here is why I stopped planning via my RDP when I was a brand new diver well over a decade ago.
I did all my first dives in Cozumel, where all dives must be led by a DM by law. Every one of those dives was a multi-level dive led by the DM's computer. All the other divers on the boats had computers. When I saw that all my dives were off the charts because they were multi-level, and that if I wanted to know what I was doing on those dives the tables were not very valuable, I bought a computer and stopped carrying the RDP.
With no training on the computer, it took me a while to figure out how to use it effectively. It took me a while, for example, to figure out how to use it in plan mode.
I did not touch an RDP again until I had t relearn it for my DM training. By then, I had lost mine and had to buy a new one.
I instruct in Colorado, and as I said, I still teach the tables because that is still a part of the course requirements. Our shop's analysis of training records indicates that 85% of our students do only the classroom and pool work with us, doing their open water dives in warm water resorts, like Cozumel. Whenever I teach an OW class, I ask people why they are taking the class, and every single student I have ever had has said they are planning a trip (or many trips) in warm water resorts, where they will encounter the same thing I did.
Blackwood
Contributor
FWIW (which may be very little), when I dove in Cozumel, I had the freedom to run my own profiles. I couldn't overstay the DM, but I could ascend before him. Unless that's abnormal, divers should be able to use tables; their dives will just be shorter (or involve more in water deco, which is how I handled not using a PDC).
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
You asked:
As far as I can tell, this is the prevalent attitude amongst "Must teach Tables" instructors. What do YOU conclude from this quote?
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
Maybe I am misreading his post but I believe he is saying that the diver CAN plan the dive on a PDC. He is, IMO, implying that PDC's are so simple that any moron can dive them (but this is my interpretation and not my words 
)
)
Ditto here ... on my first dives as a newly certified divers (previous millennium
) with buddies that had dive computers, I realized that, according to the RDP, I should have been dead :depressed: .... so I dropped the RDP and I bought a dive computer We are changing that. Now it is much easier to learn how to use specific dive computers.
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