PADI tables finally going away?

[boomx5]

Look...I don't have time to keep going back and forth with you regarding planning, diving rec/tech etc. I didn't miss your point and I certainly don't need you to tell me what UTD or DIR or anything else teaches. I've been using ratio deco on all my dives rec and tech for a long time and have not used a table, computer or software to plan my dives in almost 7 years. My point is I believe computers and tables should be taught from the entry level of diving as it lays a solid foundation for the new diver. That was my point. If you have questions, please PM me as I don't have time to keep going back and forth in an open forum.

I don't believe I missed your point, but I suspect you missed mine.

An OW diver intending to stay within NDLs can check the computer before a dive to see what those NDLs are and plan accordingly. If the computer craps out during the dive, the diver can ascend or continue the dive if he or she has a redundant time piece. No knowledge of tables in necessary.

A diver intending to do a decompression dive needs more extensive planning tools, requiring further training.

An OW diver should understand decompression theory to the point of understanding why dives need to be kept within certain limits and why a proper ascent must be made. That diver should know how to plan a dive and how to measure it to adhere to that plan. That planning and measurement can be done with a table or a computer. There are also methods that require neither tables nor computers.

A decompression diver needs further understanding about decompression theory so that a valid decompression schedule can be planed and followed. This requires more complex understanding, and the planning is also more complex. Even then, there are multiple methods for planning and measuring the dives. UTD, for example, calls for neither tables nor computers for those dives. UTD students are not taught tables, either, even in their tech diver programs.

 

[WD8CDH]

I really think tables should be taught because the student sees the times around the desired point of interest not just the specific dive being planned. That gives the student a more inherent feel of what is going on.

Even if the student will never use the tables in a dive, I feel the knowledge of them will make for a safer diver. It's basic to the way the human mind works and learns.

 

[Blackwood]

I really think tables should be taught because the student sees the times around the desired point of interest not just the specific dive being planned. That gives the student a more inherent feel of what is going on.

I couldn't disagree much more. It gives the student a single picture of the diver at depth, but it says nothing whatsoever about the ascent (where decompression actually occurs).

A useful inherent feeling includes how inert gas loading is affected by various ascent profiles.

 

[Suian]

I learnt how to dive using tables.
The equipment I used for the course was top of the line, which included a dve computer (A sunnto cobra).
The instructor however, only showed us how to read the depth, time and Air using it. We still had to plan our first few dives using tables. On the 4th and 5th dives (I did OW + ADV combined) The instructor then showed us more advanced features of the computer and how to plan our dives using it. We still had to use a table to plan our dive.
After we had done our dives and logged them, the instructor also showed us how Dive Computers and tables can make the final plan very different. So I learnt how to use a table to plan a dive I also learnt that dive computers will give you a mopre accurate profile if used correctly.

It is extremely difficult to plan a multi-level dive, computers make this very easy given they update the profile constanty.
Dive tables will always be used for diving, they allow the diver to understand the limits the can do. Dive computers are just a convience.

 

[MSilvia]

It is extremely difficult to plan a multi-level dive, computers make this very easy given they update the profile constanty.

Were you able to plan a multi-level dive this way, or just execute one?

 

[AfterDark]

I learnt how to dive using tables.
The equipment I used for the course was top of the line, which included a dve computer (A sunnto cobra).
The instructor however, only showed us how to read the depth, time and Air using it. We still had to plan our first few dives using tables. On the 4th and 5th dives (I did OW + ADV combined) The instructor then showed us more advanced features of the computer and how to plan our dives using it. We still had to use a table to plan our dive.
After we had done our dives and logged them, the instructor also showed us how Dive Computers and tables can make the final plan very different. So I learnt how to use a table to plan a dive I also learnt that dive computers will give you a mopre accurate profile if used correctly.

It is extremely difficult to plan a multi-level dive, computers make this very easy given they update the profile constanty.
Dive tables will always be used for diving, they allow the diver to understand the limits the can do. Dive computers are just a convience.

Take a look at a thread named the experiment it shows multi-level dives planned with tables, check it out. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/309764-experiment.html

 

[boomx5]

It is extremely difficult to plan a multi-level dive, computers make this very easy given they update the profile constanty.
Dive tables will always be used for diving, they allow the diver to understand the limits the can do. Dive computers are just a convience.

We don't use computers and all our dives are multi-level shore dives. It's actually very easy to plan multi-level dives if you got the proper training.

 

[WD8CDH]

I couldn't disagree much more. It gives the student a single picture of the diver at depth, but it says nothing whatsoever about the ascent (where decompression actually occurs).

A useful inherent feeling includes how inert gas loading is affected by various ascent profiles.

I was more referring to allowing the student to see how just a small change in depth or time can make a big difference in the upcoming NDL(new diver) or decompression obligation (advanced diver). When using the computer for dive planning, it just shows the single instance entered, not the effects of going slightly off plan. The computer only shows variations as they happen. The tables show this in a more obvious manner, especially as you approach the NDL.

 

[Blackwood]

I was more referring to allowing the student to see how just a small change in depth or time can make a big difference in the upcoming NDL(new diver) or decompression obligation (advanced diver). When using the computer for dive planning, it just shows the single instance entered, not the effects of going slightly off plan. The computer only shows variations as they happen. The tables show this in a more obvious manner, especially as you approach the NDL.

I've never used planning mode on a computer, but can't you do the same thing (i.e. a few feet up or down from nominal)? Sure, it's not all in one place, but I think most people understand the general concept anyway.

On the other hand, to a diligent diver, watching a computer change in real time can impart a fairly good understanding of how profile affects loading.



Either way you have the potential for people to use the numbers without any inkling of understanding. But generally speaking, I think a computer is probably a learning tool.

 

[The Chairman]

I've never used planning mode on a computer, but can't you do the same thing (i.e. a few feet up or down from nominal)? Sure, it's not all in one place, but I think most people understand the general concept anyway.

Sure it is, and it's on your hose or wrist! No looking for it in a bag. You can even plug in different NitrOx mixes and see how they affect your dive. Try to do that with a table and no calculator handy.