PADI tables finally going away?

[UCFKnightDiver]

If it floods at depth, I simply ascend. If it doesn't start up at the beginning, I will make other arrangements. It's way too easy to find a replacement QUICKLY.

But what if it gives you an incorrect reading at depth and you dont catch it? Diving your steel hp130's it could be a problem

 

[BettyRubble]

There are tools and there is knowledge.

If the student learns the knowledge and theory . . all is well. But I suspect too many rely on the tool and not on their own wisdom. A computer is a tool. An awesome tool. But the student is better served with the theory and knowledge. Then they understand why the tool is telling them what it is.

Probably not the most articulate way of saying it but hey, I haven't had my pop tart yet so give me a break!

 

[The Chairman]

but the graduates of this method of training all stood heads and shoulders above the graduates of the competing schools, that jumped straight into power tools and quick fixes.

Bravo... but diving is not a vocation or even an avocation for most of us... it's not even supposed to be a competition either! If you deign to be a professional diver, then go to school for it. If you simply want to putz around under the water and have fun, then train accordingly.

As an aside, I have had no training in the designing or creating of jewelery. Yet, when I find a meg tooth that I want to wear, you can be sure that I won't be taking it to a professional. Not because I don't trust them, but because I want MY tooth to have MY setting. So, there is a guy from New York who sells shark teeth and mounts them for a living. He's a professional, though I have no idea if he went to school for this. When he saw how I mounted MY Meg tooth, he was impressed and asked if he could steal MY design. Of course! After all, I am a rank amateur and have no illusions of being a jeweler or playing one on TV. I didn't even spend the night at the HI Express! I somehow managed to create this without any benefit of a class on how to use a blowpipe or alcohol burner.

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[The Chairman]

There are tools and there is knowledge.

If the student learns the knowledge and theory . . all is well. But I suspect too many rely on the tool and not on their own wisdom. A computer is a tool. An awesome tool.

That's the point BR... tables are just another tool as well. If you don't know how to use a table, your death is certainly not imminent. Your understanding of diving physiology is not reduced one whit by learning to use one tool over another.

When my son was a toddler, he wanted to learn how to read. My English Teacher Mother wanted to teach him and decided to come over the day after Christmas to do it. Unfortunately, he had gotten a simple program for the PC for teaching him how to read. On the afternoon of Christmas Day, my son spent a few hours on the computer and was reading and with exceptional comprehension by evening.

I remember my mom sitting down with him, only to find out that he could already read. "Peter! He reads just beautifully! I thought you said he couldn't read!" I apologized and explained why. Rather than tell me that the only way to learn how to read was by a person, she took the opportunity to reveal a rather tattered copy of AA Milne's "Winnie the Pooh". It was the very book she taught me on. He sat quietly in Grammy's lap and read the book for her. That was a priceless moment for me... seeing my son and my mom reading my favorite child hood book together. My mom was able to help his reading even more, and it was obvious that his comprehension grew even that day.

That PC was just a tool. A tool that enabled my son to go from non-reader to reader in a few short hours. It will never replace Grammy's lap, but the smile on my son's face as he showed off his newly acquired skill was amazing. But, let's not get side tracked into e-based learning here. Just the dive computer as a tool!

 

[gcbryan]

I don't see that there is much to teach regarding a computer. If someone can't figure out how a dive computer works they've got bigger problems ahead of them. Maybe there can be a specialty course called teaching the cell phone.

I don't think people generally get a lot out of the experience of "working" the table problems while in class either. I would be more for just covering the basic concepts in the table and then actually spending more time on deco theory. Spending much time on doing table problems or an learning how to turn on a computer is a waste of time. Spending a day on deco theory would actually give the students something to think about.

Both focusing on computer or tables sends students in the wrong direction. If a computer craps out on a dive or if you forgot to bring your table it shouldn't be a problem if you learned anything in the deco theory part of your certification course. It's only if you can't make an educated guess that you have a problem. All this talk about if a computer craps out the dive is over just shows the over reliance that is placed on computers (or tables).

 

[hbhobby]

I see this same arguement with map and compass vs GPS they are usefull tools one needs to understand how to use both and in my humble yet correct opinion used together even if one is used more than the other (rarley do I need/use my compass but it is always available and I know how to use it)

 

[matt_w]

But what if it gives you an incorrect reading at depth and you dont catch it? Diving your steel hp130's it could be a problem

I had a dive computer back in 1991 that read about 10 feet shallower than I actually was. I was familiar with the area and quickly caught the problem and it was not a big deal. I do see where this could be a big problem. What I do not see why a computer misreading depth is any worse than your depth gauge reading the wrong depth when you are diving tables. There are all kinds of reasons a well used mechanical gauge might read the wrong depth.

In either case, if the error is not caught, you will have an issue. Particularly on a relatively deep dive on air or a Nitrox dive where you might inadvertently press your PP02. People should always have a general idea of a dive plan before they get in the water and have a basic idea what their NDL is across a few depths.

This type of planning does not require the use of dive tables, just the use of a consistent and accurate source of planning information. Most (probably all) dive computers can serve this purpose. It is not hard to mentally remember NDLs on recreational drives. For decompression dives I do a software plan in advance and carry two computers.

Back to my original point...Equipment failures are equally bad regardless of the type of planning used for the dive. If you are diving a high risk profile, you should consider redundant equipment. For most recreational dives you can do a nice slow ascent with a safety stop when you discover a failure, and you will likely be fine.

 

[LiteHedded]

computers can and do fail.
my aeris xr2 beeped and totally reset itself and lost all the information from the first dive. this happened multiple times.

 

[muddiver]

Most recreational diving can be done without either of the tools everyone is batting about. You dive an aluminum 80 cu ft cylinder, with a mask, fins, and a simple regulator and a system to let you know that the cylinder is running low, and walla! you are SCUBA diving.

Tables and computers are useless clutter that the majority of vacation and weekend divers don't comprehend, but make great sales items. So lets dismiss them because they are just marketing gimicks for dive stores to pad their profits with.

We all know you can't exceed the limits of no-decompression diving as long as you only dive with the industry standard of the 80 cu ft aluminum wonder. Better yet sell your student steel 72's, they will be back for air fills more often. So why bother a new diving student with the inconvenient struggle of learning the theory of diving physiology through working a dive table or bothering with an inconveniently expensive computer. Jacques never used either one and he managed to successfuly SCUBA dive for many years.

BTY NetDoc, your neckless looks like hammered dog s**t. Very amaturish. I can't belive you posted a picture. I would never be seen wearing such a neanderthalic trinket.

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

I can see merit to teaching both, but not necessarily just only one