rakkis:
That is a really good analogy. Thank you for taking the time to flesh it out.
I agree with you. The industry's current model for 'stepped' training has built-in flexibility to accomodate everyone from please-blow-bubbles-for-me-Mr-DM divers and for people with extensive wreck/cave-underneath-a-glacier-at-500-ft penetration in mind.
I disagree. The system does get a diver up and running pretty quickly. Lots of divers who just want to get the essentials out of the way and get on with their vacation appreciate it (leaving aside the discussion of what is really essential). However, IME most shops and instructors pretty much assume that's what the diver is up to and pigeon holes them into that slot whether they want to be there or not.
A new diver who has a real serious interest in diving can have a real problem finding a shop or instructor who has a real serious knowledge of diving. That's true, even if we leave dive skills and swimming aside and switch the discussion to the physics, physiology or decompression theory.
If someone is willing to dedicate the time, energy, and expense to do a lot at once that's their right. There are plenty of instructors that will make a comprehensive course for you. (And if they can't find one, they should PM me
)
There are not plenty of them. If you want to get certified and vacation in the caribbean, you'll have no trouble finding an instructor or shop that speaks your language. If you have other interests, you may just be beating your head against a wall.
I invite anyone that teaches recreational SCUBA to let us know if you are completely, 100% satisfied with any one agency's minimum standards. To be honest, I'm not expecting that to be the case for many people.
There are plenty of instructors around here who are comfortable with the minimums and teach them exactly. Watch some of the bigger groups over at Haigh, for example.
In fact, lets do this since you're in the area. Lets set aside a couple of days next summer. We'll go to Haigh, Gilboa, France Park and wherever else and just watch classes. We'll bring a copy of the OW standards with us and directly compare it to what we see. I'll even spring for lunch.
Obviously instructors from all agencies run the gamut at both ends and everywhere in between. For one, I believe that a small segment of the SB community unfairly labels PADI and its instructors as deficient prima facie. Such blanket statements are untrue and sometimes have a bit of malice behind them. I realize that modding is a labor of love, but frankly statements like the one above are being allowed to stand lately.
I guess, some of the situations I've seen have generated a bit of malace that shows up from time to time. But concerning blanket statements, search the board. You shouldn't have any trouble seeing how many times we've had this conversation before. I and others have so often been refered to as elitists and who knows what else. Do you know what never happens? No one is EVER willing to debate the merits of the standards based on the actual content of the standards. I don't recall a single instance of that ever happening. They'll defend the agency, the diver or themselves, all based on the need for the industry to grow, cost of the class, accessibility to the casual diver and who knows what else but I have yet to come across a single person who will bring the actual standards into the discussion. I quote standards and the discussion is pretty much over.
Think about it. If we are going to discuss the relative merits of dive training vs what you or I think a diver should know and be able to do, where else better to look than the actual course standards. If we want to talk about divers having buoyancy control trouble. We can easily look right in the standards and see exactly what is taught, how and what is required. No one wants to do that. That's pretty much a matter of history and if you spend the time looking around the board you should be able to find plenty of examples. In fact it's going on right now over on the "condidering master diver" thread.
All you PADI instructors should know the standards better than I do because I've been inactive for a couple of years...not just inactive, I dropped my membership completely. If I'm making a big mistake someplace, it should be a simple matter to quote chapter and verse to show where I screwed up.
On the other hand, you have users that give articulated opinions on why they do not like XYZ. Unfortunately for PADI instructors, since most questions tend to be about PADI, most of the negative opinions that fly around here (whether legitimate or not) are also about PADI.
PADI gets the brunt of it for several reasons. First they're the biggest and most of us have been certified through PADI. Beyond that, they really did start the trends in dive training. The model we see now is their invention. The dive shop model we see now is theirs and largely came out of the fact that John Cronin was co-founder of PADI and VP of aqualung. And why do you think you aren't allowed to swap out the o-rings in your own reg? LOL
Unfortunately many of the people who debate this stuff, number one, wont get into the standards and number two, don't really know how the dive industry works or why things are as they are. Then of course there are those who know and would rather not talk about it or draw attention to it.
