PADI Rescue - Swim tests

[RonFrank]

I took my advanced class right out of OW. I don't consider it an *advanced* class, but a continuation of skills learned in OW.

If the newbie AOW diver does not have rock solid buoyancy, that is one of the goals of the class, to help with buoyancy.

I was certainly a better diver after doing AOW right out of OW. Had I waited 50 dives, I would not have really needed AOW.

 

[scubadada]

Personally, I don't think scuba diving is a good activity for non or weak swimmers. They may do acceptably well under ideal circumstances but would be less likely to do well in a more challenging environement, let alone being able to help another diver. I, and I'm sure many of you, have been assigned buddies who have not been up to the rigor of a dive and have ended up limiting the dive or requiring assistance.

I'm in favor of increasingly rigorous swim tests as one progresses up the ladder from OW to AOW to Rescue to DM... This would go a way toward ensuring these individuals could take care of themselves and others.

Good diving, Craig

 

[DCBC]

I disagree, This was taken directly from the PADI instuctor manual.

"For all levels of certification beyond Open Water Diver, you must screen and
evaluate all student divers to ensure they meet the required prerequisites and
possess the necessary knowledge and skills to enter the program."

Nuff said!

Perhaps you might list the PADI prerequisites that are listed in the PADI Instructor's Manual.

 

[RJP]

Perhaps you might list the PADI prerequisites that are listed in the PADI Instructor's Manual.

Here's the Rescue Diver prerequisites listed in the Instructor's Manual:


--------------------------
Prerequisite Certification

1. To participate in the rescue training sessions in confined water only, the student must be certified as a PADI Open Water Diver or have a qualifying certification from another training organization. This is defined as proof of certification as an entry-level. diver with at least four required training dives. (See Referral Procedure for an explanation about how to credit these divers for participating in Rescue Training
Sessions.)

2. To participate in the rescue training sessions in open water, and to participate in the open water rescue scenarios, the student must be certified as a PADI Advanced Open Water Diver or have a qualifying certification from another training organization. This is defined as proof of certification beyond entry level (at least two certifications total), with proof of 20 or more logged dives documenting experience in deep diving and underwater navigation.
--------------------------

So, it would seem you would "screen" for this prerequisite by asking for their cards.

However, since you must also evaluate whether the student "possess the necessary knowledge and skills to enter the program" it would seem that a swim test and skill review for a student you didn't know would be "in bounds" if the instructor wanted to include them.

 

[DCBC]

However, since you must also evaluate whether the student "possess the necessary knowledge and skills to enter the program" it would seem that a swim test and skill review for a student you didn't know would be "in bounds" if the instructor wanted to include them.

Obviously things have changed in this area. Previously, the Instructor could not evaluate anything other than the specific requirements. If s/he added anything to the program, the Instructor could not withhold certification if the "added skill-sets" were not met. If a prerequisite was not listed in the "PADI Program Prerequisites," the Instructor could not turn-away divers that met them based on his or her "personal criteria."

So as I understand it, what you are saying is that if a PADI Instructor added "Buddy Breathing" as his "personal criteria" regarding PADI's requirement to "possess the necessary knowledge and skills to enter the program" and therefore could refuse entry to a student that didn't demonstrate this skill. I think you see my point.

If an Instructor can set his own criteria, then PADI's prerequisites are only "partial requirements." This never was the case and I cannot help but questioning that PADI would go along with this.

 

[ScubaRich]

As I see it, I can pick any required skill from the OW course as a prerequisite. I don't just accept a C-card. If you have not mastered the basic skills in the OW course, You don't meet the prerequisites of this course. As the instructor, I have the FINAL say on who is in my class!
It really doesn't get any clearer than that. So much PADI bashing has gone on that many are starting to make up their own horror stories. Call PADI's QA dept and ask them if they would have a problem not allowing someone in the rescue course that couldn't swim. I seriously doubt they would rule against the Instructor.

 

[DCBC]

As I see it, I can pick any required skill from the OW course as a prerequisite. I don't just accept a C-card. If you have not mastered the basic skills in the OW course, You don't meet the prerequisites of this course. As the instructor, I have the FINAL say on who is in my class!
It really doesn't get any clearer than that. So much PADI bashing has gone on that many are starting to make up their own horror stories. Call PADI's QA dept and ask them if they would have a problem not allowing someone in the rescue course that couldn't swim. I seriously doubt they would rule against the Instructor.

As I have said, I disagree. I have 17 years experience as a PADI Instructor. I have witnessed enough horror stories with PADI, I don't need to make any up.

You can refuse service to whomever you want. If they wish to sue you for discriminatory practice that's up to them.

I suggest that you phone PADI's QA Department and tell them you are so worried about the level of instruction PADI provides that you feel it necessary to test PADI certified divers to make sure that they can swim. You obviously have no faith in the PADI system. Be sure to give them your PADI number.

It is a different thing to fail someone on a course, than it is to refuse to let them start one; especially if they have all the PADI prerequisites.

 

[ScubaRich]

Sue me for Discriminatory practice??
To say I would be sued is laughable. Anyone can sue for anything. Weather they win or not is another.

I would much rather have to explain myself to a judge and jury why I didn't let a person into a rescue diver course that couldn't prove to me they could swim, As opposed to explaining to a grieving family member that I pushed someone thru a course because they held a c-card and a few dollars.

This argument can go on forever! The bottom line of my point is, I'ts NOT a violation of PADI standards to add a swim before entering a course.

Which I interpret as, Ensuring that all students MEET the prerequisites of the course before begining.

So, If I get sued, Let the chips fall as they may and I thank you for your concern.

 

[DCBC]

Anyone can sue for anything.

At least you are right about something.

 

[ScubaRich]

Thank You!