PADI DM 400M freestyle and 15M tread

[TMHeimer]

John, Good example. I'd like to think I could've done that when I was DMing. Will never know for sure. Only way I'd find out now would be if I was buddy diving and the buddy was in trouble.

Rooster59, Makes sense. I never considered that. Would you still use that method if you wore mask & snorkel?-- on the DM 800 test? In a real life rescue?

 

[Rooster59]

“Would you still use that method if you wore mask & snorkel?-- on the DM 800 test? In a real life rescue?

I would swim that way if I couldn’t use my arms, but not with a snorkel. I swim that way with a mask as part of a workout, but not with a snorkel. Mask fins, and snorkel- I’d swim that freestyle on my stomach with a 2-beat kick and jet fins. I like a stiff negative fin for surface swimming. A small tight kick will propel you forward with a stiff fin. A flexible fins doesn’t have the drive. A negative fin will stay in the water and bite. I should have read the earlier posts better regarding the 800m swim with a snorkel.

 

[TMHeimer]

Reminds me of one of my old suggestions for the DM 800 (or OW 300) mask/fins/snorkel test. Why not make it longer (say 1200, 500) and allow using arms?
Guy's in trouble 100 yards away. "Gee, I can't use my arms because I'm wearing m/f/s...…."

 

[donburde]

A friend of mine was present for the following event.

They had just finished diving a very popular wreck called the Spiegel Grove in Key Largo, Florida. There were several dive boats hooked on to the different mooring balls. As they took their gear off, they heard the DM on their boat shouting to another boat's crew. He was telling them that one of their divers was in trouble. The other boat crew was oblivious. They looked over the edge and saw a diver struggling to get to that boat in the waves and current. The DM yelled at him to inflate his BCD, but he paid no attention--his head just kept slipping below the surface and then coming back up as he struggled.Finally the head went beneath the surface and did not come back up.

The DM jumped in and swam furiously to the place he had gone down. (I don't know if grabbed mask and fins first.) He dived down, found the unconscious diver sinking at about 20 feet, grabbed his arm, pulled him to the surface, and then dragged him to the boat. Once on the boat, he began CPR. After a minute or so, the diver coughed, puked, and revived.

So, as you do your DM tests, ask yourself if you are really ready to do what that DM did, and how you would feel if you couldn't.

I'm my current line of work, electrical industry, I've been called on more than once in my 20+ years in this field to administer aid in a life critical situation. My answer to you question.... abso freaking lutely.

 

[Lead_carrier]

What is the requirement for the 400M swim for a PADI DM and for the 15M tread? I know and understand the points and times but Im getting conflicting answers for both of the above.

Are you allowed to use ANY gear for the 400M freestyle, even swim goggles? Ive heard both yes and no.

What is the requirement for the last 2 minutes of the 15 minute tread? Only hands out or up to elbows out? Ive also heard both.

If you have a question about the standards, ask the instructor that you will be taking the class from. I tried to do a PADI class many moons ago and found out the instructor had his vision of how things should be done. ie; type of stroke for the 400m swim. How the 800 m snorkel could be done, swim times, etc. He said he could change standards as long as his were more difficult. I contacted PADI and they told me he was incorrect but that they wouldn't do anything to make him come to their standards. I did not continue in his class. So just go straight to the instructor and ask everything before hand. It will save a lot of heartburn in the long run.

 

[boulderjohn]

He said he could change standards as long as his were more difficult. I contacted PADI and they told me he was incorrect

With some agencies that is true--you can add to the standards as much as you want, as long as you at least meet the standards.

With PADI, it is a bit more complicated. You can teach beyond the standards, but you cannot fail a student for the inability to do something beyond the standards. this is misinterpreted by many people to mean that with PADI you cannot teach anything outside of the standards, which is definitely not true. There are many PADI documents extolling the virtues of adding to the basics of the course--you just can't create requirements that students MUST meet for certification.

I would love to have seen PADI's exact response when they told you the instructor was incorrect but then said they would not do anything about it.

 

[TMHeimer]

With some agencies that is true--you can add to the standards as much as you want, as long as you at least meet the standards.

With PADI, it is a bit more complicated. You can teach beyond the standards, but you cannot fail a student for the inability to do something beyond the standards. this is misinterpreted by many people to mean that with PADI you cannot teach anything outside of the standards, which is definitely not true. There are many PADI documents extolling the virtues of adding to the basics of the course--you just can't create requirements that students MUST meet for certification.

I would love to have seen PADI's exact response when they told you the instructor was incorrect but then said they would not do anything about it.

As would I. Perhaps it would come down to "he said, she said". Maybe there would have to be written collaboration from other students that the instructor did this?

 

[donburde]

If you have a question about the standards, ask the instructor that you will be taking the class from. I tried to do a PADI class many moons ago and found out the instructor had his vision of how things should be done. ie; type of stroke for the 400m swim. How the 800 m snorkel could be done, swim times, etc. He said he could change standards as long as his were more difficult. I contacted PADI and they told me he was incorrect but that they wouldn't do anything to make him come to their standards. I did not continue in his class. So just go straight to the instructor and ask everything before hand. It will save a lot of heartburn in the long run.

I just underestimate myself way too much... it took me a month of training to get my times down to where they needed to be. Hardest part for me in the end was the 800m kick. With another month I'm sure I can get myself to 5's across the board... at least on the endurance part. I have a tendency to over prepare for everything. LOL... The one thing I'll say for sure, learning the correct techniques for competitive swimming and building my endurance has made my dives so much better. We have a shallow reef here in Pompano beach, right around 20 feet. It's my go to spot for lobster... A little over a month ago I was happy to stay down 70+ minutes with an 80 bottle. Now Im down easily 100 minutes and heading back to the beach at about 800psi. Unintentional benefits are a good thing. This dang cold weather has gotten me a little lazy with the training, LOL, but I'm pretty confident I'll be able to do any endurance test.

 

[TMHeimer]

I've often mentioned that it was the 400 that gave me the most trouble. My first try I couldn't even finish it for a "1". This shocked me as I was briefly on the HS swim team before making basketball JV so I had to quit due a practice time conflict. My problem was I took it too lightly and did no training. After 39 years, both my stroke technique and "swim muscles" were nowhere near up to par. So I got advice from my two competitive swimming brothers and swam laps once weekly for several months. Was able to get a "3" my second try. Problem is the only pool was 50 miles away and gas is very expensive in Canada. Needless to say, after getting my 3 and points needed to complete the stamina tests, I never again swam laps. Figured I'd always have fins on while DMing courses should the need for a rescue happen. We lived right on the ocean, but weather and a relatively short "warm water" summer meant any swimming I would do there would do nothing for me.
I got into the many discussions on SB about exactly how being able to swim at a good pace without fins really relates to diving and a DM's duties.

 

[donburde]

I've often mentioned that it was the 400 that gave me the most trouble. My first try I couldn't even finish it for a "1". This shocked me as I was briefly on the HS swim team before making basketball JV so I had to quit due a practice time conflict. My problem was I took it too lightly and did no training. After 39 years, both my stroke technique and "swim muscles" were nowhere near up to par. So I got advice from my two competitive swimming brothers and swam laps once weekly for several months. Was able to get a "3" my second try. Problem is the only pool was 50 miles away and gas is very expensive in Canada. Needless to say, after getting my 3 and points needed to complete the stamina tests, I never again swam laps. Figured I'd always have fins on while DMing courses should the need for a rescue happen. We lived right on the ocean, but weather and a relatively short "warm water" summer meant any swimming I would do there would do nothing for me.
I got into the many discussions on SB about exactly how being able to swim at a good pace without fins really relates to diving and a DM's duties.

I understand your pain, LOL... after seeing the huge strides that a couple of months makes, I feel like I would be selling myself short if I settle for anything less than a 5 ... not to mention the additional time Im getting out of the same air on dives with similiar conditions and depths. I'll admit that living in Florida, I have a huge advantage that allows me to swim essentially any time I want. LOL. I guess the other thing is Id prefer to swim laps over running on a hamster wheel at the gym. I cant leave out the satisfaction I get at the pool when I see the look on the face of the younger swimmers when they get beat by the "fat old guy" LOL...