Padi/diving & sexism

[Doppler]

wapyaly once bubbled...


Wot does 'ad hominem' and 'estrogenical' mean, I don't understand the joke?

I'm trying to get my head around "AD HOMINEM DEFENSIVENESS!" I'm wondering if that's a defensive position that is behind a fallacy or if it's a counter to an ad hominem attack.

Of course, any scholars of latin in the audience can ignore the irony of the phrase "against the man" given the flavor of the current argument =-)

Wapyaly... Cambridge, eh? You don't run around the High Street in a don's gown do you?

 

[wapyaly]

no I don't, and as for running, I avoid it at all costs, unless the pubs just opened!

So these phrases are Latin eh? never did Latin. Can't you tell?

As for this sexism thing, I don't care really, so long as there's plenty of strong men to help me back onto the dive boat!? Call me shallow, but there you are.

 

[nessum]

O-ring once bubbled...

Not only did you say "ad hominem", which is hysterical in its own right, but you also made me out to be a sexist a-hole. I'm sorry I poked my head into your little estrogenical slinging match.

Have a real nice day!

Well, that's certainly the impression that I got. And yes, it is your own damn fault for poking your head in here with that attitude.

And as for "ad hominem"
"This kind of argument distracts readers from the issue being discussed and, instead, uses personal attacks against an opponent" (80, Buckley).

Instead of defending yourself or your gender against sexism with a valid argument, you instead suggested that it is shallow of me to even take a look at such a topic.

So, um.... bite me. I wasn't looking for any of these misogynistic opinions, I was looking for a little help with an essay. If you find the issue so petty, why waste your time in a thread about it?

 

[nessum]

Doppler once bubbled...

I suspect your premise may be flawed because it appears to me that you have made a conclusion based on incomplete data or at least prematurely based on insufficient data. You seem to have made up your mind before you started writing the introduction to your piece... nothing wrong with that, but that's an EDITORIAL not a RESEARCH paper. And since you asked for help, my assumption is you are more interested in producing a paper weighted towards research than an opinion piece.

Steve Lewis

Actually, it is not necessarily a research paper. It is our "Independent Language Project" meaning that we have to observe some use of laguage. I chose sexist language in diving & possibly diving organizations. I am reviewing other manuals with minimal encounters with sexist language in PADI. I am not changing my topic, as overall it is not focused on PADI (it was just what inspired the paper).
So yes, it is actually an opinion piece... perhaps I should have stated this earlier. *shrug*

 

[Doppler]

nessum once bubbled...


SNIPPED
So yes, it is actually an opinion piece... perhaps I should have stated this earlier. *shrug*

Perhaps you should have, eh?

Anyway, you've chosen an interesting departure point... and obviously a topic that has the potential to engender some debate when you present it.

Suggest you look at a book by Jolie Bookspan: "Diving Physiology In Plain English" She has a section on Gender Myths in Diving which you may find interesting background material.

Bonne Chance

Doppler

P.S. Dr. Bookspan is a fine scientist and probably well worth firing an email to... she may have an opinion to share with you...

 

[nessum]

Thanks Doppler.

 

[nessum]

theskull once bubbled...
If the opposing arguments are "so obvious that they don't need to be pointed out", then it is even more critical that this weak premise defend itself against them. Academically speaking.

Whoa out of context!
so obvious... TO ME! very important part of that sentence that you left out.
My prof doesn't dive, so the criticisms would not be as obvious to him.

 

[SubMariner]

I am starting to see some flames in this discussion.

Please, people, let's keep this civil!

Just a note from one of your friendly neighbourhood Regulators.

 

[Warren_L]

Out of curiosity I flipped through my PADI DM manual last night, and threre were a zillion references to "student diver" but I couldn't spot one reference to that student diver as a he or she. Looks pretty gender neutral to me.

 

[SubMariner]

Since my curiosity was also piqued by this discussion, I too opened up several PADI training materials, namely the Rescue Diver section in my digital Instructor Manual and the (student) Rescue Diver.

For the record, the student RD manual I have in my possession is copyrighted 1995, 1999, 2001, 2002. I do not seem to be able to find any stand alone third person pronouns in it (e.g.: he or she) unless they are within one of the story scenarios where characters are introduced by name, then subsequently referred to as he or she in the rest of the narrative.

The bulk of the manual addresses the reader as "you". Other times there is "diver", "student", "victim", "patient", etc.

Meanwhile, in the RD section of the 2003 Digital Instructor Manual, there are 6 references to "he"; 8 to "him"; 0 to "she"; 0 to her; 237 to "you; 115 to "patient"; 103 to "victim"; 435 to "diver"; and 125 to "student".

I leave you to draw your own conclusions.