Padi/diving & sexism
- Thread starter nessum
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OP
kws,
um, thanks for the orders you gave me to look elsewhere, do another paper, etc... but I don't think so, sorry.
I'm glad you haven't witnessed any real sexism while diving. Good for you. But does that mean it doesn't exist? Certainly NOT. Do I think every male diver is sexist. No, the fact of the matter is that I dive with a lot more male buddies than female. My entire rescue class was male aside from myself. It was an awesome class & I have NO complaints with any of them. (Saw 2 of them today, in fact.)
So I'm not saying that sexism is the norm, that would be about as correct as you saying it doesn't exist.
Yes, I'm aware it works both ways. It's a damn shame, but I promise you that I have no problem setting up my own gear & helping others with theirs. 30+lbs of weight & all. Dive bunny? No thank you (plus the water's way too cold for that type of fun around here, any season).
And the first one in & out hasn't even crossed my mind... as it doesn't really happen that way on shore dives.
Thanks for your opinion, though...
um, thanks for the orders you gave me to look elsewhere, do another paper, etc... but I don't think so, sorry.
I'm glad you haven't witnessed any real sexism while diving. Good for you. But does that mean it doesn't exist? Certainly NOT. Do I think every male diver is sexist. No, the fact of the matter is that I dive with a lot more male buddies than female. My entire rescue class was male aside from myself. It was an awesome class & I have NO complaints with any of them. (Saw 2 of them today, in fact.)
So I'm not saying that sexism is the norm, that would be about as correct as you saying it doesn't exist.
Yes, I'm aware it works both ways. It's a damn shame, but I promise you that I have no problem setting up my own gear & helping others with theirs. 30+lbs of weight & all. Dive bunny? No thank you (plus the water's way too cold for that type of fun around here, any season).
And the first one in & out hasn't even crossed my mind... as it doesn't really happen that way on shore dives.
Thanks for your opinion, though...
nessum
interesting reply. thanks for the orders???? i dont recall any orders given. only questions as to the topic and its narrow one sided scope.
one is a idiot if they belileve that sexism does not exist untill they witness it. like wize it is true that one can not derive that all are sexist's from a few examples. what you are not seeing is that you are asking for is information regarding sexism. you have no stated intrest in the greater percentage of people that are not sexist's. review your opening post. it would be one thing to say you were looking for instances of sexism and a percentage of occurance. its called fair and ballanced writing. instead you appear to be focusing on one side of the equation and denying the existance of the masses who are congenial people. with out the ballance you need but a few complaints and all are made to be guilty. i will not suggest that i have never been around men who will make remarks about a woman. however most are made in a private environment where humiliation is not a result. i can tell you of instances where a woman became exhausted trying to overcome the current to get on the boat. i would not make her the poster child for any depiction of what the normal woman physical limitations are. another couple of women watching a boat load up makes a comment along the lines of big fins = big feet.... they were not divers but was with the woman who was. what can one make out of that??? how about swimming into a wreck cavity and interupting a couple enjoying each others presence. that certainly does not make divers gay. the reference to dive bunny acknoleged that there are such around and that they also are such a minority that they can not be responsibly considered representative of the masses. we have zero tollerance for smokers, drinkers,family values, raceism,sexism,cell phones,domestic abuse, and the list goes on and on. perhaps zero tollerance for zero tollerance should be adopted. let a woman comment on some male attribute and she is haled for showing her independance. let a man do the same thing and he is a criminal. big feet is ok but broad sholders is not. who created that double standard????? finally those who cry victom are often the ones that are responsible for the greatest amount of victomizing. i have no hopes or concern that you would change anything. you are committed to your end. perhaps you one day will become a journalist and you can make the news and call it reporting the news and then demand social change.. you have a good start im sure.
interesting reply. thanks for the orders???? i dont recall any orders given. only questions as to the topic and its narrow one sided scope.
one is a idiot if they belileve that sexism does not exist untill they witness it. like wize it is true that one can not derive that all are sexist's from a few examples. what you are not seeing is that you are asking for is information regarding sexism. you have no stated intrest in the greater percentage of people that are not sexist's. review your opening post. it would be one thing to say you were looking for instances of sexism and a percentage of occurance. its called fair and ballanced writing. instead you appear to be focusing on one side of the equation and denying the existance of the masses who are congenial people. with out the ballance you need but a few complaints and all are made to be guilty. i will not suggest that i have never been around men who will make remarks about a woman. however most are made in a private environment where humiliation is not a result. i can tell you of instances where a woman became exhausted trying to overcome the current to get on the boat. i would not make her the poster child for any depiction of what the normal woman physical limitations are. another couple of women watching a boat load up makes a comment along the lines of big fins = big feet.... they were not divers but was with the woman who was. what can one make out of that??? how about swimming into a wreck cavity and interupting a couple enjoying each others presence. that certainly does not make divers gay. the reference to dive bunny acknoleged that there are such around and that they also are such a minority that they can not be responsibly considered representative of the masses. we have zero tollerance for smokers, drinkers,family values, raceism,sexism,cell phones,domestic abuse, and the list goes on and on. perhaps zero tollerance for zero tollerance should be adopted. let a woman comment on some male attribute and she is haled for showing her independance. let a man do the same thing and he is a criminal. big feet is ok but broad sholders is not. who created that double standard????? finally those who cry victom are often the ones that are responsible for the greatest amount of victomizing. i have no hopes or concern that you would change anything. you are committed to your end. perhaps you one day will become a journalist and you can make the news and call it reporting the news and then demand social change.. you have a good start im sure.
OP
at least you're consistent in talking down to me.
I asked about one side of an argument. Does that mean that is the only side I am able/ willing to see, or present? No.
In fact, as i have stated multiple times, the dive community is supportive, non-discriminatory, considerate group of people in general. This is made clear in my paper. But, as with everything else, there are those few people, incidents, etc that are not quite so politically correct. It is not my intent to portray the sexist few as the norm... and I was certain to make that extremely clear in my essay.
And as for the journalist/making the news comment. That's the lowest blow yet. Think you know me that well?
I asked about one side of an argument. Does that mean that is the only side I am able/ willing to see, or present? No.
In fact, as i have stated multiple times, the dive community is supportive, non-discriminatory, considerate group of people in general. This is made clear in my paper. But, as with everything else, there are those few people, incidents, etc that are not quite so politically correct. It is not my intent to portray the sexist few as the norm... and I was certain to make that extremely clear in my essay.
And as for the journalist/making the news comment. That's the lowest blow yet. Think you know me that well?
wetvet
Guest
Nessum, I dont think there is any rational way to evaluate your hypothesis. The problem with sexism (or any other ism), as noted before, is that you cannot evaluate the action, but you must evaluate the MOTIVE.
When we are on a boat charter, and I pick up your tank when I walk by, am I sexist? Maybe.....you dont know.
If I offer to help you with your gear, or let you know that you have a hose trapped behind your BC, am I sexist? You dont know.
If PADI uses he to represent the diver in their literature, are they being sexist, or conforming to language norms? Again, you don't know.
Unless you know WHY something happens, you can't evaluate if the actions is sexist (discounting the most obvious examples, which, happily, have almost disappeared over the past decades).
Unless you know me, you cannot reasonably predict my motives, and wont know if Im sexist. I'll tell you though, if I do you a favor, and you accuse me of being sexist for it, you may end up going for an unexpected dip. Many people get extremely upset for being wrongly accused of something, especially when their intentions were pure.
The problem with movements like feminism is that you will find sexism if you want to. To some women, if I go through a "manhole" cover to get to the sewers, I am sexist.
I am not saying sexism does not exist, only that argueing about it is pointless. A circular arguement is like a merry-go-round....its kinda fun, but you dont get anywhere.
Just a thought
Wetvet
When we are on a boat charter, and I pick up your tank when I walk by, am I sexist? Maybe.....you dont know.
If I offer to help you with your gear, or let you know that you have a hose trapped behind your BC, am I sexist? You dont know.
If PADI uses he to represent the diver in their literature, are they being sexist, or conforming to language norms? Again, you don't know.
Unless you know WHY something happens, you can't evaluate if the actions is sexist (discounting the most obvious examples, which, happily, have almost disappeared over the past decades).
Unless you know me, you cannot reasonably predict my motives, and wont know if Im sexist. I'll tell you though, if I do you a favor, and you accuse me of being sexist for it, you may end up going for an unexpected dip. Many people get extremely upset for being wrongly accused of something, especially when their intentions were pure.
The problem with movements like feminism is that you will find sexism if you want to. To some women, if I go through a "manhole" cover to get to the sewers, I am sexist.
I am not saying sexism does not exist, only that argueing about it is pointless. A circular arguement is like a merry-go-round....its kinda fun, but you dont get anywhere.
Just a thought
Wetvet
OP
hi wetvet,
i appreciate your views on motive... I think most of us are just trying to help one another out I'm thinking more along the lines of "Here, let a man try," or "I don't want to dive with any girlie divers." In other words, comments made, etc.
i appreciate your views on motive... I think most of us are just trying to help one another out I'm thinking more along the lines of "Here, let a man try," or "I don't want to dive with any girlie divers." In other words, comments made, etc.
