PADI Dive Master Course

[Se7en]

Continue... or give it away? (Really long)

I'm currently doing a PADI DM course, and having a few issues with it... I think it's a compatibility issue
I work in another field, and am unlikely to ever need to DM or teach to earn money, but I enjoy diving and enjoy teaching, so thought it would be good to do at a low level as a hobby - making sure it never makes me not want to dive for fun anymore

Background on myself
I've been diving for a dozen or so years, mainly cold water diving as far south in Aus as you can get, but done a bit of diving all over, from the Coral Sea to Perth. Did my open water (although I had done a bit of diving before that - 20 odd dives I think) and then just dived with friends, gradually gaining experience. Had done over 100 dives before I went below 30m, and generally stayed within the 40m limits.
Moved interstate, and went along with my GF and another couple of friends who had just done their OW to do AOW, mainly as I lost my OW card some years ago, but also it's easier to show AOW than to carry irregularly filled in log books around. Thought the course was pretty slack, but also realise it is not an advanced course, it's actually meant for beginner divers.

With a number of inexperienced friends, I was often in the 'dive leader' role, so thought I should learn a bit more about it. Did Rescue, had a ball, though it was a great course, and passed some of what I learnt on to my less experienced buddies.

So the next step was DM. A bit of pressure from the guys I did rescue with, some encouragement from the shop and I signed up.

Got the materials, had a read, thought the encyclopedia was kinda good, with the usual PADI misnomer of there being such a thing as non decompression dives. I don't understand how a manual which explaines M values can then go on with the notion of dives not requireing decompression, but anyway...
Touched a wheel for the first time ever, worked out how to use it, and confimed that you can do the same thing with the tables. All it actually does is add an arbitrary level of conservatism for multi level profiles, no big deal. Bit expensive for what it does, but I suppose it's an interesting party toy...

Then started the course.
Firstly - is there any requirements for further training for PADI instructors to be able to take a DM course? The instructor on our course went through a Advanced Education course, which takes a non diver, and spits out an instructor at the other end... who then starts teaching OW students. Our instructor looks to be excellent at teaching OW students the PADI way, but isn't able to discuss the material beyond 'this is what PADI says'.
I have some level of knowledge put together over the years, and was hoping to be able to discuss the topics covered with someone with understanding, not just memory. I'm not sure that what I think is necessarily right - but the instructor sure cannot explain WHY the PADI way is correct either. Some of the decompression theory stuff I'd find interesting to talk through...
Oh - case in point - despite three of us trying to explain it to the instructor, they were not able to understand why we though that air consumption should be measured in litres rather than Bar.

The DM manual does concentrate a fair bit on selling PADI - I wasn't expecting to have to come up with reasons why I should do AI as part of the DM course. Also, all the marketing stuff is a bit much for people who don't want to go out and sell diving. I don't want to convince people to dive - I just want to help those who want to do so already. So I really don't like being fed the 'do lots of courses' line. If someone I know wants to do an area orientation after learning to dive somewhere warm, I'll take them for a dive, not conduct a 'discover local diving' course.

Into the pool, swimming tests done (bit annoyed I took it too easy and missed the 6:30 mark for 400m), first thing we do is the boyancy check. This is done in exactly the same way that we are supposed to show OW students - we are to do it to demonstration quality.

And we do it with full tanks. 12 litre tanks filled to 210 bar - around 90 cuft. Those tanks have about 3 and a half kilos of air in them, so of course we all sink... and are all told to take weight off.
No discussion of trim, even though a couple of people are having issues... perhaps due to most of us swapping to Ali rental tanks from our normal steels

When questioned later, the logic goes like this - "All open water students are overweighted anyway, so we do the boyancy check with full tanks to encourage them to take some weight off. Anyway, we are showing them how to do the check, not just trying to get their weight right"
I of course wanted to ask why the students were overweighted when the only people who would tell them how much weight to wear were the same instructors... I also prefer to tell people how to do something right, and why it should be done that way, rather than just 'do it like this'

Anyhow, I'm just blathering now.

I guess what I really want to work out is whether it's worth finishing the course, or whether I should just walk away. I think I must be an annoying student, I find the course frustrating a lot of the time, and I doubt that I will ever be a good PADI role model. I'm starting to think I should just dump the idea of formal teaching, the stress of conforming to the dogma seems to be greater than the enjoyment of helping and teaching others.

Kinda depressing really.

Mike

 

[art.chick]

Ya know, Mike,
I appreciate your honesty; sounds like u r a guy who just enjoys diving, happened upon some newbie buddies, & just want to provide good leadership to them.

I would not like the idea of going into a course expecting to learn how to be a good diving leader & then be put thru salesman training! I would also not respect an instructor who could not answer my questions (which may explain why I have been thru quite a few jobs in my non-diving life; that awkward moment when the emporer notices that you notice he's naked.)

My diving leadership course was nothing like what u have described, so I cannot relate to the extent of your dissatisfaction. My instructors were very experienced, taught a variety of techniques, & had comprehensive answers to all of my questions. However, I have only been diving since 1999, so I may be more easily impressed than a guy with 12 years in the water. If the course is still close to the beginning, I'd say bolt & spend the rest of your summer having fun.

If it is almost over (only a couple more weeks), you could just play along, give the "approved" answers, pass your test, get your card, and decide later if DM would be a fun thing to do on weekends or in retirement. There are other agencies that allow for cross-overs if you would prefer more freedom to teach from your own experience. Who knows what yet another credential in life will merit you later? But that really IS if there is not much more of the course left.

 

[Se7en]

Originally posted by art.chick

My instructors were very experienced, taught a variety of techniques, & had comprehensive answers to all of my questions.

The instructor has the answers, at times almost verbatim from the PADI manuals What I feel to be missing is discussion of why an answer is approprate - even for something as simple as having a snorkle attached to your mask, or why PADI does not recommend DSMB use etc.

If the course is still close to the beginning, I'd say bolt & spend the rest of your summer having fun.

Ahh - but it's the middle of winter down here. I dived Saturday and went skiing on sunday

We are about half way through the course, getting into the exams and the assesment now. Finishing the theory and assesment will not be a major issue, I know the material well enough to get through, it's more of a case of why bother?

Focusing on demonstrating a skill rather than just doing it has been interesting, and I've learnt some new stuff (like a 5 point descent, and snorkle to reg swap ). However, I end up disheartened at the end of each session.

We have not started the internship yet, and I guess that this will be where I think I may have / cause problems. It's not fair to present students with different opinions in basic training - it only makes it harder for them to learn. Yet I also question why I should endorse practices that don't make sense to me.

Thinking through this, I guess it's more that I'm a poor student than any fault of the instructor. I guess I should just stop being so picky and conform - or accept that I'm too self opinionated to be a good DM or Instructor.

ciao
Mike

 

[DameDykker]

Hi Mike

Very interesting post. One of the reasons (not stated in my post DM or ? ) I'm a bit hesitant over doing the PADI DM is what you're describing. I'm an engineer and used to question everything and to want solid logical reasons. Also with 40+ years I will not take the word of the instructor as goodspell as a much younger person might do. At the moment I doubt that I'll do the DM course. But let us hear how it went and what you learned in the long run.

 

[kwesler]

I hope that no one who questions the methods etc. that any agency prescribes will drop the DM course because they think they are not "towing the company line!" PLEASE!! for all of our benefit, do what is necessary to pass the course, then question everything. Every advance in every endeavor has been made by someone questioning the status quo-but first you have to get in a position to effect change.

My thoughts on reading your posts are that you are EXACTLY the kind of teacher Ii would like to have-someone who teaches what they think works best, someone who is willing to constantly re-examine what they doing etc.

My $.02...

Ken

 

[Paul168341]

I agree with Ken, 100%

PADI MSDT168341

Question Authority

 

[DuckDive]

Originally posted by Se7en
Thinking through this, I guess it's more that I'm a poor student than any fault of the instructor. I guess I should just stop being so picky and conform - or accept that I'm too self opinionated to be a good DM or Instructor.

I agree with kwesler and others, and my guess is that the above is untrue. Don't all good students seek a deeper understanding? Aren't all thinking divers opinionated? (Pushy is something else, of course).

I think you were spot-on when you mentioned a "compatibility issue". I have heard a number of the experienced pros on this board say that agreement with your chosen agency's 'culture' is extremely important. PADI seems (to me) to be the worst place for non-sales-oriented people to be.

There is a local Course Director, who has "certified over 100 IDC candidates". Extract from a website:
*** practices what he preaches by guiding, directing, cajoling and if necessary, dragging Instructor Candidates into the reality that their primary function is not to teach, the PADI Self Study Program does that, but to sell. "First, we must sell the students on ourselves as competent and able Instructors. Second, we must sell the students on how much fun the course is. Third, we sell the students on the importance of owning their own gear. Fourth, we sell the dive experience, whether it is local diving or travel. Fifth, we sell the continuing education or development of the diver. The order of the above is not important, merely the confluence of all into a smooth presentation."

My reaction, on reading this, was to start re-thinking my plans. Other people will have different reactions. That's fine.

Changing PADI from the inside is possible I guess, but I wouldn't hold my breath . Rather pick another agency. Just my opinion.

What are your options locally, Mike?

Mark.

 

[TCDiver1]

My Padi Course Director, IDC & IE were nothing like that paragraph. The emphasis was on proper techniques for training SCUBA in the safest most thorough manner possible. Selling SCUBA or gear were mentioned but NOT dwelled upon.

Selling your services must be done to propagate current & future business. Anyone who thinks otherwise is: 1.) Lucky to be in a business they don't need to sell, 2.) Never been responsible for running a successful business, 3.) Is a commie pinko red .......
hehe ...... just kidding!

Course directors are no different than the rest of us. What they choose to do with their cert when they are done is left largely up to them. But hear me now & believe me later, if any Padi instructor, especially Course Directors, stop teaching skills per Padi standards & Padi finds out, they will get thumped & thumped hard. Padi is VERY serious about their Quality Assurance program. The same is true of all major certifying agencies

I'm not sure where that paragraph came from but my guess is your seeing internal policy most customers are not intended to see. Eg: policy for running the store, not policy for how students are taught. Policy for how & what we teach students is set, in general, by Padi standards, not the individual instructor or course director.

 

[usil]

The problem with any sort of trainning agency is that it is going to condition the student to do things the way it thinks is appropriate or right. It makes no difference what kind of trainning you are doing; driving, flying or diving. What a responsible student has to do is go in, learn everything that the agency has to teach, then make decisions for ones self as to the validity of those teachings.

Dude, finish the DM coarse. Learn the "PADI" way of diving and take what you can from it. Just because you are a " PADI DIVEMASTER" ( insert fanfare) dosn't mean you have to dive like a PADI divemaster, or teach like one. Teach your way. Anyways any instructor or shop that dosn't know to skip over the padi propoganda bull**** shouldn't have anyone diving with them anyway, let alone learning from them.

 

[DuckDive]

Everything you say is true. I have been very happy with my PADI training thus far, and I don't want to suggest that PADI would allow their training standards to be compromised in the name of sales.

I realize that my post shows one operator's (extreme?) viewpoint, but I don't believe that it diverges a great deal from PADI's approach in general. I could be wrong.