PADI Deep Diver Standards

[Divin'Papaw]

Anything deeper than about 100 is a technical dive IMO. I would recommend at least a recreational triox course.

Hummm .... every single training agency and the US Navy disagree.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Actually Adv. Nitrox and Deco *is* or up until recent was the way to do exactly that. PADI Deep does not get into equipment requirements, physiology and physics and offer significant practical experience.

So diving between 100-130 in the Great Lakes should really require Tech training? Is that due to the complexity of the cold water? What about diving between 100-130 off of Morehead City, NC? Or the Keys?

I realize that the line between sport and tech is not solid but is actually full of shades of gray. However, what you're recommending is counter to the guidelines (as far as I know) taught by every sport and tech agency I'm familiar with.

 

[pir8]

Its not that you need the tech classes to dive more than 100ft. What it will do for you is give you that more understanding of what to do if you have a problem when you are that deep and end up in deco.
Did I say that correctly?

 

[ekewaka]

Hummm .... every single training agency and the US Navy disagree.

Don't get too caught up on the exact definition of technical diving. There is not a clear line between recreational and technical. At that depth, the no deco times are very low, and it is very easy to end up with a deco obligation. You should have the training for that. I know of at least one agency that requires helium mixtures for all dives below 100 feet, and most would consider helium a technical diving gas.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I mean that there aren't midwest rec. instructors doing deep dives. Sometimes, I think how I could know you, Duane, and in_cavediver without being a Scubaboard.

In fact, it isn't easy for mid-west OW students to find and meet a right instructor depending on your needs.

I'm still not sure what you're getting at. There are lots of deep divers in the midwest and there are lots of deep dives to do.

Finding a good instructor to learn deep diving isn't too hard although, I personally, don't think a dive shop is the place to look.

If someone is looking for an instructor in themidwest there are several that I have personal experience with and feel comfortable recommending.

 

[MikeFerrara]

This thread of course has digressed into a bash PADI fest. That wasn't my intent, but often times it is warranted. As the OP, let me offer a follow-up question to attempt to put this thread back onto a positive track ...

What is the best way to go about safely learning and experiencing recreational (within NDL and depth limits) deeper diving? Please don't come back with Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures. That's not the kind of diving I'm talking about. That's technical deep diving and is not the intent of my question. I can find tons of advice on that both here and on TDS.

How does a sport diver safely acquire the proper theory (physiology and physics), equipment requirements and practical experience to dive in the 100-130 range within NDLs in the cold, dark water we have in the Midwest?

Actually the IANTD Advanced Nitrox course has a max depth of 130 ft and max allowable mandatory decompression time of 15 minutes...little more than a safety stop. However, the course is skill intensive and, if taught well, will really prepare the student for diving to those depths. IANTD clasifies the course as a sport diving course rather than a technical diving course.

I also like the look of the GUE rec triox course.

 

[serambin]

Just my opinion of course, but my answer is "More bullets in the chamber".

This course is damn scary the way it is allowed to be run, (which is to say the way it is typically run).

To bring a newer diver (Got certified last week) with less than 12 lifetime dives to their name down to these depths is to me assisted suicide.

You assume there was anything really taught on the adventure deep dive. I doubt it, but it is possible. Most of the folks that I see who hold this prestigeous piece of plastic basically did a couple more dives deep, chatted a bit about the main topics, and that was that.

Padi doesn't seem to have an issue with it judging by my conversations with them about this.

They didn't seem to me to have a basic clue of what Duane states as what we would like to see as primary information and basic skills. It just wasn't taught, and like the balance of the AOW course, was simply more guided dives that amounted to a lost opportunity to actually learn something worthwhile.

very sad.

You. . . You . . .PADI basher, You.

Stan

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Actually the IANTD Advanced Nitrox course has a max depth of 130 ft and max allowable mandatory decompression time of 15 minutes...little more than a safety stop. However, the course is skill intensive and, if taught well, will really prepare the student for diving to those depths. IANTD clasifies the course as a sport diving course rather than a technical diving course.

I also like the look of the GUE rec triox course.

That's useful information Mike. Something new I hadn't realized previously.

 

[Hoosier]

I'm still not sure what you're getting at. There are lots of deep divers in the midwest and there are lots of deep dives to do.

Finding a good instructor to learn deep diving isn't too hard although, I personally, don't think a dive shop is the place to look.

If someone is looking for an instructor in themidwest there are several that I have personal experience with and feel comfortable recommending.

Ok... Let me clear my point.

We are talking about a rec.diver here. In reality, most rec. divers simply walk into the LDS and complete AOW or any other speciality, such as a wreck or deep diving.

Only few student like Jim is actually questioning about an instructor in this stage. Compared to my previous experiences, Jim is a kind of role model to step up a diving career. He is actively collecting information, reading the book, and attending the seminars. For example, he is planning to take a wreck diving specility from Duane because he believes that Duane is an avid wreck instructor in Chicago area. I think Jim is in a right path more than anyone else in his stage.

As I mentioned earlier, thanks to the board or good mentors, many rec. divers can get some info about a local instructors and any other diving info, but there are still many newbie rec. divers who aren't exposed to our board or any other advanced divers like yourself.

Sure, there are some good instructors in mid-west. But, do you think how they can get the information that you have.

Based on my experience, most rec.divers used to find out that they picked up a wrong one after actually taking a class. Yes, it is eventually pothering after the event.

In sum, no matter what reason they have (accessibility, lack of information, or distance) it isn't easy for most rec. divers to access to a right instructor who they are supposed to have. Don't even think about that most rec. divers are willingness to travel four or five hour drives to take a speciality course.


Just my 2 cents....

 

[in_cavediver]

Anything deeper than about 100 is a technical dive IMO. I would recommend at least a recreational triox course.

Actually, this brings up an interesting question. What is your risk tolerance? All diving is about risk management and risk tolerance to acheive a goal - usually sightseeing underwater.

Which would you rather be, the diver in a single tank with your average rec dive buddy hanging out at 100' or a diver with entry/pre-tec training (Advanced Nitrox, rec trimix etc) who is diving redundant gear and is capable of primary self rescue?

Me, I don't like diving much without any redundancy at any depth but that's more to do with equipment familiarity than a real need. In a purely OW case, anything below 60-80 is definitely in gear with redundancy. Of course, I don't like taking needless risks and I see diving to 100' without a redundant airsource a needless risk.

For the course, I took IANTD Deep and Advanced Nitrox. All rec depths (130ft max) and still 'sport' diver. If well taught, it covers what you ought to know to dive to these depths.