PADI Deep Diver course- gas management

[jadairiii]

....I feel PADI prepared me for, the instruction on gas management feels adequate. I'm definitely never going to run out of air if I follow the instruction I received from the books.....

That is the information I was looking for. So they taught you enough so that "you" wouldn't run out of air, but did they teach you how to manage your air so that you and your buddy could make it to the surface, with safety stops, if you buddy ran out of air?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I think it is important to reference the standards. The following is from the instructor guide. This is the bare minimum requirements.
Performance Requirements
By the end of the open water dives, student divers will be able to:
Deep Diver Open Water Dive One
• Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Compare changes in color at the surface and at depth.
• Compare your own depth gauge to your instructor’s and/or other student diver’s depth gauges.
• Use a depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with an ascentrate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform a 3-minute safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing.
Deep Diver Open Water Dive Two
• Execute a “free” descent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
• Describe and record the changes that occur to three pressure-sensitive items while at depth.
• Perform a navigation swim with a compass away from, and back to, the anchor of the reference line (one diver navigates away from, the other navigates back to, the reference line for a distance of between 10 and 20
kick cycles, depending on visibility).
• Perform an ascent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
• Use depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with ascent-rate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform a 3-minute safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing without physically holding on to a reference line for positioning.
Deep Diver Open Water Dive Three
• Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Compare the amount of time needed to complete a task on the surface and at depth.
• Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Use a depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with ascentrate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform an 8-minute simulated emergency decompression stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing, while breathing from an emergency air source for at least one minute of the total time.
Deep Diver Open Water Dive Four
• Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Complete an underwater tour of the area.
• Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Use your depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with ascentrate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform a 3-minute safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing.

Now the IG does have a section:
Note:
Work with student divers to show them how to estimate their air consumption by using the chart in their student manual. Ensure student divers understand that by estimating the depth of their dive and by using the chart to !nd the column representing their cylinder size they should be able to !nd an approximate total time (in minutes) they’ll have underwater listed on the chart. With time
permitting, go through a number of examples with divers. For example: A dive to 21 metres/70 feet, with a 12 litre/80 cubic foot cylinder will allow you approximately 34 total minutes underwater.
In addition, remind student divers that knowing an estimate of how long a cylinder may last at a certain depth is no substitute for constant monitoring of their submersible pressure gauge or dive computer. Ask student divers to read both “Air Consumption
Calculation” and “How Much Reserve?” side bars in their student manual to formulate a good all-round air management plan.

When I took my deep course, my instructor didn't go over the above. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the common case.

This comment isn't just directed to PADI, but all agencies lacking gas management requirements. Deep courses should require gas consumption determination, and a student-developed gas plan for their deepest dive which includes handling emergencies at depth and determining turnaround points. This should be documented and stored in the students' files. My 2 bar.

 

[tursiops]

I think it is important to reference the standards. The following is from the instructor guide. This is the bare minimum requirements.
Performance Requirements
By the end of the open water dives, student divers will be able to:
Deep Diver Open Water Dive One
• Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Compare changes in color at the surface and at depth.
• Compare your own depth gauge to your instructor’s and/or other student diver’s depth gauges.
• Use a depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with an ascentrate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform a 3-minute safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing.
Deep Diver Open Water Dive Two
• Execute a “free” descent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
• Describe and record the changes that occur to three pressure-sensitive items while at depth.
• Perform a navigation swim with a compass away from, and back to, the anchor of the reference line (one diver navigates away from, the other navigates back to, the reference line for a distance of between 10 and 20
kick cycles, depending on visibility).
• Perform an ascent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
• Use depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with ascent-rate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform a 3-minute safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing without physically holding on to a reference line for positioning.
Deep Diver Open Water Dive Three
• Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Compare the amount of time needed to complete a task on the surface and at depth.
• Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Use a depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with ascentrate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform an 8-minute simulated emergency decompression stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing, while breathing from an emergency air source for at least one minute of the total time.
Deep Diver Open Water Dive Four
• Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Complete an underwater tour of the area.
• Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Use your depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with ascentrate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform a 3-minute safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing.

Now the IG does have a section:
Note:
Work with student divers to show them how to estimate their air consumption by using the chart in their student manual. Ensure student divers understand that by estimating the depth of their dive and by using the chart to !nd the column representing their cylinder size they should be able to !nd an approximate total time (in minutes) they’ll have underwater listed on the chart. With time
permitting, go through a number of examples with divers. For example: A dive to 21 metres/70 feet, with a 12 litre/80 cubic foot cylinder will allow you approximately 34 total minutes underwater.
In addition, remind student divers that knowing an estimate of how long a cylinder may last at a certain depth is no substitute for constant monitoring of their submersible pressure gauge or dive computer. Ask student divers to read both “Air Consumption
Calculation” and “How Much Reserve?” side bars in their student manual to formulate a good all-round air management plan.

When I took my deep course, my instructor didn't go over the above. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the common case.

This comment isn't just directed to PADI, but all agencies lacking gas management requirements. Deep courses should require gas consumption determination, and a student-developed gas plan for their deepest dive which includes handling emergencies at depth and determining turnaround points. This should be documented and stored in the students' files. My 2 bar.

These are NOT the current standards for the PADI Deep dives.
Notably, missing from the above for Dive One (which is also the AOW dive) is the number one standard in the current Instructor Manual:

"1. Plan and manage gas use, including determining turn pressure, ascent pressure and reserve pressure. Establish no stop and dive time limits."​

​

There are other variances from the current PADI standards.

These also are not the current SDI Deep standards.

 

[NauticalNick]

Fair enough, but the OP asked for thoughts from those who have taken the course. I have taken it and provided my thoughts.

Until I took Wreck Diver from a different instructor a few months later, I had never been exposed to rock bottom type gas planning. That much I am certain of. Whether my instructor taught to the standards I have no clue. I'm not and have never been a PADI instructor.

Your experience is consistent with mine and I did mine just a few years ago.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

These are NOT the current standards for the PADI Deep dives.
Notably, missing from the above for Dive One (which is also the AOW dive) is the number one standard in the current Instructor Manual:

"1. Plan and manage gas use, including determining turn pressure, ascent pressure and reserve pressure. Establish no stop and dive time limits."​

​

There are other variances from the current PADI standards.

These also are not the current SDI Deep standards.

Please copy and paste the current standards in its entirety. That would be helpful to the conversation.

 

[tursiops]

Please copy and paste the current standards in its entirety. That would be helpful to the conversation.

Where did you get the ones you are quoting?
I'm hesitant to post copyrighted material in its entirety.

 

[lowwall]

I'm hesitant to post copyrighted material in its entirety.

The entirety would presumably be the whole manual/instructor guide?

While nothing in life is guaranteed, in my opinion as a former librarian at a large research university this would qualify as fair use under every one of the four factors that are considered when making such a determination: the use would be for educational purposes and also not for its original purpose of dive instruction, i.e., it would be transformative; it's a technical rather than creative work; it's a small portion of the entire work (assuming the instructor manual is the copyrighted work); and it will have zero effect on the market for the original work either now or in the future,

U.S. Copyright Office Fair Use Index

The goal of the Index is to make the principles and application of fair use more accessible and understandable to the public by presenting a searchable database of court opinions, including by category and type of use (e.g., music, internet/digitization, parody).

www.copyright.gov

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Where did you get the ones you are quoting?
I'm hesitant to post copyrighted material in its entirety.

From this, which was applicable until I stopped renewing with PADI in 2018. Just share the same content I did and include a screen grab of the first page for the updated version.

 

[tursiops]

it will have zero effect on the market for the original work either now or in the future,

I doubt this. One has to pay for the Deep Instructor Guide, and it is not sold to the general public, only to PADI Pros.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I doubt this. One has to pay for the Deep Instructor Guide, and it is not sold to the general public, only to PADI Pros.

I didn't mean the ENTIRE document, just the relevant parts specificying the performance requirements and knowledge regarding gas planning. It isn't a big deal.