PADI Cavern Diver Course Changes

[Scuba_Steve]

Steve,

My speculation about PADI's intentions are just that...speculation. While I discuss cave training I don't do so with the same confidence as I do OW training since I'm not a cave instructor and only a cave diver of limited experience.

Yes, that is understood. I just happen to believe your hunch is correct.

 

[mike_s]

Interesting post Mike.



I will be waiting anxiously for the unveiling of Padi's Cave course.

You'll get a good laugh out of this post (see below). It's from GaryNJ on Decostop.com

I really laughed at the "PADI Night Cave" speciality... (think about it if you don't get it)

Rest assured, PADI won't do A full cave course. They might follow Cavern with Advanced Cavern, Cavern Nitrox, Cavern Advanced Nitrox, Advanced Cavern Advanced Nitrox, Intro to Cave, Advanced Intro to Cave, Intro to Cave Nitrox, Intro to Cave Advanced Nitrox, Advanced Intro to Cave Advanced Nitrox, Intro to Cave Navigation Specialty, Intro to Cave Peak Performance Buoyancy Specialty, Night Cave, and so on... But they won't do A full cave course

 

[SparticleBrane]

Anyone know if you can dive doubles after an NACD Intro course?

 

[H2Andy]

yes, with a letter from your instructor

 

[SparticleBrane]

Sweet!

 

[Dive-aholic]

You'll get a good laugh out of this post (see below). It's from GaryNJ on Decostop.com

I really laughed at the "PADI Night Cave" speciality... (think about it if you don't get it)

I've done a few night cave dives. Do you think if I sent in copies of my log to PADI they'll give me the Night Cave specialty?

 

[Rich Courtney]

Anyone know if you can dive doubles after an NACD Intro course?

To clarify......you can dive doubles after an NACD Intro course with a "Discretionary Apprentice" letter from your instructor, you can also dive doubles with a NSS-CDS Basic Cave card (which was formerly Intro), and these are the guidelines that Ginnie goes by also. Hope this helps

Safe diving,

Rich

 

[loosebits]

I wish PADI would stay out of cave diving (and reef diving for that matter). I doubt they are though. With the raise in popularity in the sport it's too good a thing for them not to get involved. I am just a full cave newbie but what can the verterns out there do to at least help PADI develop a decent program? If PADI needs IT's, maybe the Steve Bermans and Jim Wyatts out there need to be the first to sign up so we have a chance of bringing PADI into the community instead of them doing it the typical PADI way.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I wish PADI would stay out of cave diving (and reef diving for that matter). I doubt they are though. With the raise in popularity in the sport it's too good a thing for them not to get involved. I am just a full cave newbie but what can the verterns out there do to at least help PADI develop a decent program? If PADI needs IT's, maybe the Steve Bermans and Jim Wyatts out there need to be the first to sign up so we have a chance of bringing PADI into the community instead of them doing it the typical PADI way.

I've not known PADI to ask any ones opinion or show any interest when it's given anyway.

I remember being a fairly new instructor in a room FULL of instructors voicing their concerns and disagreement about the, then new, dive today philosophy. At the time I thought they were just a bunch of malcontents but later of course came to agree with everything they said. The PADI regional mgr running the show wasn't interested in any of their opinions even though some of them were very experienced. It was a done deal and it was their way or the highway. You can now do OW dive 1 before getting to mod 3 where buoyancy control is introduced! Which of course fits right in with allowing OW dive 1 credit for discover scuba diving participants. Even though it makes ZERO sense in a diving or training context, you can see the value when it comes to closing a sale and making it easy to issue certifications.

I also remember voicing concerns about training practices that I witnessed and the results of those pratices. While they did not come out and say that they condoned those practices they did acknowledge that the wording of the standards permit those practices. While I don't think they know much about diving they absolutely are smart enough to know what their standards permit and what the advantages are (more certifications).

While organizations like the NSS-CDS and the NACD work to open sites to divers and yet protect the sites, organizations like PADI (not just PADI of course) have the power to come along and undo that work in a heartbeat. I, personally, don't think they care any more about the caves than they do the reefs that their divers are tearing up or the lakes that they wipe out in the first hour of a saturday morning. It's just another developing market. It's a sickening site to see a hord of divers come crawling through the middle of a bunch of spawning beds destrying everything in their path and I'm not looking forward to seeing the same sort of folly in caves.

 

[loosebits]

Well, that's just depressing as hell. The only other option I can think of would be to limit access to sites... not something any cave diver wants to really entertain but since most of the sites could care less about the money brought in by cave divers (how much does Ginnie really make off of us) it wouldn't be impossible to exclude anyone with a PADI nitrox-advanced-cave with the reel speciality card until PADI can demonstrate a different philosophy towards cave training than they have everywhere else. Of course this is a slippery slope but unless I'm mistaken, this has happened already in certain sites.

Btw, is there some sort of reciprocity agreement between the CDS, the NACD and TDI (as far as one agency acknowledging another's cards) or is it an instructor thing?