A PADI instructor can add skills that may add value to course, cannot withhold certification if student cannot do them to instructors satisfaction when required skill objectives are met.
PADI Beyond Master Scuba Diver
- Thread starter Efka76
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Yes I know that. But what happens if something happens if the student has an accident during conducting those skill? When it comes to a lawsuit and PADI is also a defendant? Remember the Tuvell case? There’s the answer.
True
The instructor left DSD student Tuvell on the bottom, unsupervised. He didn't add a skill, he ignored an important standard. PADI kicked him out. What's the problem?
Content is skills and knowledge and experience. They overlap but are independent. The PADI instructor for some of my classes added a lot of knowledge to some of the classes I took. No problem.
There is a difference between adding content and violating standards. If during OW you take a student back into a cave that is violating standards and should not be done.
When you say content, you mean academic material, right? No problem there. I started improving my dive planning instruction while I was teaching PADI. Took a few years to get it "right" to where I was publishing that doc.
But I'm not talking about taking a student into a cave. I'm talking about adding some sensible skills.
(oly5050user this is where I have the issue). I had a student do his AOW (took him 18 dives to get through it. Unfortunately, some of that was remedial, my fault completely, as I had certified him on the knees and paid for it - I actually offer free remedial training to any student whom I taught in the past on the knees). So back to this student. He was then taking deep with me. Because deep is a 4 dive course and he had already done dive 1 with me, it didn't make sense for him to repeat it (especially as there are no skills involved). So I had an extra dive for dive #4. I wanted to find out what I could do in that dive. The answer was nothing. The frustrating part is that no one at PADI would tell me that. I had to read between the lines. My regional training consultant said it was a great question and would get back to me after the staff meeting the next day. But he never did. He never answered my emails or voicemails. So I had to corner a training consultant at DEMA. He gave me all sorts of BS like "you can go on a dive with him". I do that anyway with all my students.
Can't I have him deploy a DSMB from 21 m / 70 feet on the ascent and maintain a tight line as he ascends? Is that so dangerous? After all, it is optional to have students deploy DSMBs neutrally buoyant. Is it so much of a stretch to have a student in their last deep dive, where they already have AOW certification, to deploy a DSMB from that depth?
I'm not talking about dumping one's scuba kit to the bottom, diving down, and putting it back on. I'm not talking about breathing from a cylinder valve. I'm talking about shooting a bag and similar things. Nothing out of the ordinary, but adding a task of managing another air space and managing a line during ascent. Basic stuff.
Also, I am firmly against the existence of PPB as there are no performance requirements not already covered in OW. Swimming through a hoop does not teach buoyancy. Finning can easily mask buoyancy problems. While no longer at SSI, I do like that in their buoyancy course they have added backfinning (which is where I think introduction to this skill belongs).
Am I being reasonable or am I insane in this matter? (I know how many will answer without that clarification).
Again, PADI doesn't stop any instructor from adding exercises, but they do so entirely at their own risk. I submit my addendums to SDI HQ for a sanity check. Their response has always been incredibly positive and supportive.
As a general comment my experience has been asking what can I do is harder to get answered than "can I do A". Note that can I do A and B and C and D might be interpreted as doing A B C D on the same dive which might be too much. Did you ask PADI if you could do A specifically. Personally I think that deploying a DSMB from 70 ft is a good experience provided they have practiced at a shallower depth first. There is some task loading in deploying a DSMB of course and adding doing it on ascent adds some more.
I did bring up some basic things. DSMB was on the list. Agreed on the practice in shallow water first. Honestly, I think that shooting a DSMB at the shallowest safety stop should be optional on any of the dives. It is an OW skill after all, and providing practice/reinforcement from a shallow depth. Perfect for once the safety stop is over.
While not words from PADI HQ's mouth, my CD did tell me specifically that having a student deploy a DSMB during a deep class is a standards violation.
Not true. I'm guessing this is the same CD who trains all the divers and instructors you constantly denigrate?
Did this CD state HOW this would violate standards for the Deep Diver course or, more specifically, WHAT standard(s) would be violated by having a Deep student deploy a DSMB? Not taking issue with the statement, per se, just trying to better understand the thinking behind it.
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