PADI Beyond Master Scuba Diver

[Efka76]

I've got three.

But none of them are from PADI

EDIT: @Efka76 , I don't know your motivation for collecting those stars. Some folks seem to collect C-cards for a hobby. Nothing wrong with that, other people collect stamps. But that's not for me. In your position, I'd seriously consider which of those specialties would be useful to me, take them and forget about the stars. Or, if you're into stars, you can do like I did: Cross over to CMAS, who give 1* diver, 2* diver and 3* diver classes.

When I'd completed my RD, I figured that PADI didn't have much to offer which I wanted. To become a dive leader in PADI, you have to "go pro". I have no ambitions of "going pro", so I crossed over to one of the club diving agencies, CMAS. Another agency with a similar philosophy is BSAC. There you can take a cert which complies with the same ISO standard as PADI DM does, but with a few extra bells and whistles. Another option to improve your diving which already has been mentioned is GUE Fundamentals. I haven't taken that (yet), but I've only heard good things about it from a sizable number of people I know who have.

@Storker

I started my diving by obtaining PADI OWD certification. I was really happy with my instructor. Me and wife were his only students, course lasted 5 days. AOW I did in Koh Tao which is cheap place for diving. Wreck, Deep, Night, Nitorx, UW Naturalist specialties I did with as a part of AOW bundle. My thinking was quite simple - I will get more experience if I dive in different conditions. I did PADI RD as it is a really useful course. I was very happy with my instructor as well as it was a private training for me. Additional specialties (Search & Recover and Drift) I did for the sake of fun. More you dive, more you learn. After obtaining PADI MSD I felt that PADI training is really too easy, I did not feel very challenged. That's why I tried TDI courses: Sidemount, AN/DP and Helitrox. These courses were really tough and I got a lot of new skills (e.g. back kicking). I am quite strong man, however, every day when I was returning back to hotel I was feeling very tired. Yes, these TDI courses were very very good, I did them in one of the most reputable tech dive centers, trainers were really very well known tech divers.

When I moved to Scotland I wanted to see whether cold water diving is for me as previously all my dives were warm water dives. That's why I did PADI Drysuit course. I liked diving in Scotland and enrolled to local BSAC club. Yes, I know about CMAS and BSAC Did cross-over to BSAC Sports diver. My thinking regarding dive leading is similar to yours. I did not want to "go pro". That's why I engaged to BSAC Dive leader program. According to my estimation it will take 1-2 years to get through all required lessons and qualifying dives as trainer sign offs dive when you fully master requires skills. Accordingly, it takes 3-4 dives in order to get sign-off on "qualifying dive". However, diving is my hobby, I have time.

You can call me a card collector but I did all these courses in order to learn something new. I could easily collect more card by getting Fish ID, Multi-lever diving, DSMB, Shark conservation, etc. certifications... but that would be waste of money.

I am looking at PADI training as a basic training, which gave me basics for further training. Also, I see that there is quite string GUE Scotland community. Maybe in the future I will take Fundies course and join them as welll.... will see about that.

Regarding MSD rating starts - I noticed one dive center announcement in Facebook and looked further for more information about "Beyond PADI MSD". Currently I do not have intention to take more PADI courses..... however, if in the future I decide to pass PDI Ice diver and any course, I will apply for PADI MSD 2 star rating..... why not?

 

[Edward3c]

...
That's why I engaged to BSAC Dive leader program. According to my estimation it will take 1-2 years to get through all required lessons and qualifying dives as trainer sign offs dive when you fully master requires skills. Accordingly, it takes 3-4 dives in order to get sign-off on "qualifying dive". However, diving is my hobby, I have time.
...

Will I see you at the South Scotland Regional Training sessions, held monthly February to December.

 

[Efka76]

Will I see you at the South Scotland Regional Training sessions, held monthly February to December.

Still have not decided yet. Currently was planning to attend DL training organised by Divetech Edinburgh. However, in the future maybe will attend South Scotland Regional Training sessions as well.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Come dive with me in one of our local quarries and for $25 I'll give you enough stars to cover the back of your card. Can get them at the dollar store for something like $1 for 100 of them.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

So we just ignore the problem of poorly trained divers that don't even meet WRSTC requirements from poorly trained instructors (or unmotivated ones).

I will decide to put aside your clear bias against PADI to focus on this first statement. You make a broad statement that seems to insinuate that ALL PADI instructors are poorly trained and ALL PADI divers do not meet the standards as set by the WRSTC. Maybe you just left out a couple of key words such as "some divers" and "some instructors" but I can only go off what I read here and I find it to be misleading at best.

Never did I ask or suggest we ignore poorly trained divers regardless of the agency they were trained under. I can't speak for Paul Toomer but I would guess that he never meant that either. The quote was about agency bashing and worrying about promoting XYZ organization. Instead of pushing that, we should be pushing and promoting diving in general.

Not all PADI divers are poorly trained. There are many dive training organizations and all have some poorly trained divers. I know this because I have been diving with BSAC, CMAS, SSI, SDI, PADI, IANTD, UDT and GUE divers.

I was on a dive with a GUE trained tech diver who could not hold a stop to save his life and his positioning was terrible. He stayed above us the entire dive. When I say above I mean directly above. Is GUE training people below WRSTC standards? Maybe this guy just didn't care enough. I can't say one way or the other but I won't publicly bash an agency.

I have seen BSAC and CMAS divers who I would have guessed were new to diving only to find out they had about 1000 dives between them. I could continue this all day but what it comes down to is not the agency that trained them but rather the instructors as well as the student themselves.

I have been trained by instructors, ITs and IEs from PADI, UTD and RAID. Some were better than others. I realized that who they taught for did not matter. One instructor from a highly regarded organization (on SB that is) did nothing but berate me and my fellow students the entire time. It was so bad none of us wanted to dive with this instructor and were happy when they were unavailable and the other instructor (they team taught) would step in.

In one of my SSI OW coures, I shared the pool with an IDC Staff Instructor working with DMCs. My students never touched the bottom. The divemaster candidates spent most of their time on their knees. My students and assistants thought the DMCs were remedial open water students.

The look of shock when I told them that, no, those divers were soon going to be dive pros is one that I will never forget, and is always good for a laugh. Except it isn't funny.

No it is not funny.I was trained as a PADI instructor and all my training was done neutrally buoyant. I have also seen SSI instructors looking like Christmas trees underwater and kicking up sand. However I also know SSI instructors and IEs that are quite good in the water. Saying you saw one course does not mean PADI is better or worse than SSI.

They are different branches of the same tree and I believe that is the point. We water the entire tree and not just one branch.

I'd rather see a focus on, "hey, we have the skills and training to get you there. Don't worry about the time involved." Guaranteeing certification after 2 days (academic quickies, confined water in the morning day 1, ow1 in the afternoon that same day, 3 ow dives on day 2 and they are done). Those are scuba divers, not open water divers. And It isn't just PADI that has this problem. But with their overwhelming marketshare, they do set the precedent.

Many people here long for the old days of L.A. County Scuba certs where it would take a month to get certified. This is no longer the way. Today people want things now. It is a society that focuses on instant gratification. I can't change society but I can create the best divers I am able to create in the time I have to do so. This is something we need to get past. If one truly wants to have a positive impact on dive training, one needs to find a way to improve training in the small amount of time they have with students. People want those Instagram moments and they want them now. We as scuba professionals have to figure out the best and safest way to do that before we see the sport we love fade away due to lack of interest.

Dive training will never go back to training like it was when I wanted to get certified as a kid and my dad said no because we did not have a month to spare in order to get certified via the YMCA. I was busy with wrestling and BMX racing. If the course would have been shorter back then, he may have allowed it.

I am not saying shorter is better but it is what we have to work with now.

Bottom line is that PADI is not the monster many here make it out to be and Scubaboard divers are very much a minority in the diving community. Yes, I am a PADI instructor but do not think that is why I am beating this drum. I am also an SNSI instructor looking to become a TDI and possibly RAID instructor as well.

I want to promote diving and the wonders that exist beneath the waves, agency be damned.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@ScubaWithTurk

It isn't just PADI, and I have stated ad nauseum that the problem of not meeting WRSTC requirements in my area is common across all the agencies that exist here: PADI, SSI, NAUI and SDI. It is a fundamental problem for any agency that doesn't set objective standards but leaves it up to the discretion of the instructor.

I don't get why you didn't get that. I thought I was quite clear on that.

But I do have bias against agencies that prevent instructors adding to courses. You can't do something like this with any PADI courses, can you?

 

[Bob DBF]

But I do have bias against agencies that prevent instructors adding to courses. You can't do something like this with any PADI courses, can you?

My understanding is that a PADI instructor may add content to courses, however they cannot withhold certification for failing the added content. So they could do something like that but the student would not be penalised for poor performance in that area of study.


PADI is the easy target, bigger organisation, more instructors, means more poor instructors, just by sheer numbers they are screwed.

If we all remember our math, half the instructors in each agency are below average.


Bob

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

My understanding is that a PADI instructor may add content to courses, however they cannot withhold certification for failing the added content. So they could do something like that but the student would not be penalised for poor performance in that area of study.


PADI is the easy target, bigger organisation, more instructors, means more poor instructors, just by sheer numbers they are screwed.

If we all remember our math, half the instructors in each agency are below average.


Bob

Bob,

If an instructor has students do some exercise outside what PADI specifies and there is an incident, do you think PADI was a going to back then in court?

 

[tursiops]

Bob,

If an instructor has students do some exercise outside what PADI specifies and there is an incident, do you think PADI was a going to back then in court?

Yes.

 

[ofg-1]

Beyond PADI Master Scuba diver is an entire universe of options. You can train with NAUI,TDI,RAID,GUE,IANTD, SSI, CMAS...others I cannot remember. You can collect so many certifications that you will need 2 or 3 hero jackets to sew all of the patches onto. You can travel the world taking class after class, instructor and beyond, commercial diving schools, search and rescue, DMT training, chamber operator, captains license...the list is endless.

OR, just go and enjoy diving within your limits.