PADI Beyond Master Scuba Diver

[Bert van den Berg]

I got the Master Diver certification a few years ago by taking some rigerous specialties like Deep, Self Reliant, Wreck, etc. PADI sent me a MSD patch but it sits in my drawer because I am embarrassed to wear it. I won't wear it because the MSD cert is too easy to obtain by taking other less challenging specialties.

 

[Skulmoski]

Some of the worst divers I've encountered are Master Scuba Divers. If they don't tell you, you can usually find a patch or a logbook that says so. Not my thing, but if it works for someone else, more power to them.

Competency is knowledge and experience APPLIED.

Here I did loose you entirely.
Also I am a professor, at the University of Parma, Italy.
Teaching is not a business, it is a mission!
For me, it is really strange that an academic can endorse so enthusiastically the PADI commitment to hook divers, with the main goal of squeezing money from them.
Do you think that this is also the goal for universities?
Do they exist, since more than 1000 years, for the main purpose of squeezing money from our students?

Just curious, have you ever taken a course like GUE fundies or UTD Essentials? It may reshape the value you see in the past training you've received.

Sure, my PADI training made me better. But just barely. Not enough to justify the price after I learned how a course should be taught when I took fundies.

GUI - yes, in Dubai.

 

[Skulmoski]

Just curious, have you ever taken a course like GUE fundies or UTD Essentials? It may reshape the value you see in the past training you've received.

Sure, my PADI training made me better. But just barely. Not enough to justify the price after I learned how a course should be taught when I took fundies.

GUI in Dubai

I dove with BSAC divers for 3 years and my daughter took their Ocean Divers course. I audited the class, and observed the dives. So I have some familiarity with other training agencies.

Please re-read what I wrote: PADI is suitable for most divers most of the time. Most divers do not require the TDI, UTD or other more technical training approaches. Will taking Intro To Tech, Nitrox, Advanced Nitrox, and Advanced Deco make the typical PADI diver a better diver? Yes. But, the typical PADI diver will never take these courses.

With respect.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

First thought after reading this thread: for something PADI has not marketed, there sure is a ton of bashing PADI for it.


I do not believe agency bashing helps anyone. It certainly does not help the industry. Many have a bad taste when it comes to PADI but they do cert more divers around the world than anyone else. Shouldn’t we like that they are so visible and help to create a future for the sport/past time that we love?

Paul Toomer, when asked about the decline of scuba said the following:


Today, there are 7.5 billion people walking around on the planet, and we manage to pump out about one and a half million certifications a year. And there’s expected to be a billion more people on the planet over the next 10 years. Yet the leaders of our industry are saying that we’ve reached stagnation and we’re now in decline? Seriously? What’s taking scuba’s place then? Why are the stakeholders not moving us forward?

What should we be doing?


It’s really simple. We need to stop competing against each other. I mean that in a global sense, not on an individual basis. We need to stand together and push ‘Brand Scuba’, not just Brand Scuba Pro or Brand PADI or Brand RAID.

I for one agree with this. Just my two bar.

 

[Skulmoski]

Here I did loose you entirely.
Also I am a professor, at the University of Parma, Italy.
Teaching is not a business, it is a mission!
For me, it is really strange that an academic can endorse so enthusiastically the PADI commitment to hook divers, with the main goal of squeezing money from them.
Do you think that this is also the goal for universities?
Do they exist, since more than 1000 years, for the main purpose of squeezing money from our students?

I currently teach at a university that is not for profit, without government funding. When one runs a university as a business, one is more likely to be financially successful and lean, with the subsequent ability to invest savings into providing a better learning and research environment for students, faculty and staff. (I have taught at universities in Canada for 2 years, the UAE for 9 years, and now in Australia for 2 years. All had different funding models. But all with a focus on students; and a priority when I was the Assistant Dean.)

I disagree that PADI's main goal is financial: "Their goal – professional support services, standards and curriculum for diving instructors and give more people a chance to enjoy the underwater world by offering relevant, instructionally valid scuba diving training to create confident scuba divers who dive regularly." (PADI website).

Has PADI achieved their goal? Perhaps not, but they are continuously improving their products and services such as the topic under discussion in this thread.

Goal for universities? As you know, universities are facing massive change (e.g. SMART Universities, digital badges, stackable degrees, etc.); I hope that education will be more affordable, equitable and assessable.

Regards

 

[Angelo Farina]

I currently teach at a university that is not for profit, without government funding. When one runs a university as a business, one is more likely to be financially successful and lean, with the subsequent ability to invest savings into providing a better learning and research environment for students, faculty and staff. (I have taught at universities in Canada for 2 years, the UAE for 9 years, and now in Australia for 2 years. All had different funding models. But all with a focus on students; and a priority when I was the Assistant Dean.)

I disagree that PADI's main goal is financial: "Their goal – professional support services, standards and curriculum for diving instructors and give more people a chance to enjoy the underwater world by offering relevant, instructionally valid scuba diving training to create confident scuba divers who dive regularly." (PADI website).

Has PADI achieved their goal? Perhaps not, but they are continuously improving their products and services such as the topic under discussion in this thread.

Goal for universities? As you know, universities are facing massive change (e.g. SMART Universities, digital badges, stackable degrees, etc.); I hope that education will be more affordable, equitable and assessable.

Regards

This is entirely reasonable!
And yes, albeit I and my wife are CMAS instructors, our two sons were trained and certified (OW and later AOW) at PADI courses.
I find that PADI does a great job of making it possible for everyone to make the first steps in scuba diving. For this, PADI provides great teaching for reasonable cost, in a safe and professional environment.
Said that, after these initial stages, I think that for further training and specialisation other didactical systems provide more. But, as already pointed out, in the end what matters is to find an instructor who is motivated, and not just searching for your money!

 

[Skulmoski]

I got the Master Diver certification a few years ago by taking some rigerous specialties like Deep, Self Reliant, Wreck, etc. PADI sent me a MSD patch but it sits in my drawer because I am embarrassed to wear it. I won't wear it because the MSD cert is too easy to obtain by taking other less challenging specialties.

The cool marketing tactic that PADI uses is based on the "Achievement Motive"; those who have the achievement motive, pursue formal opportunities to achieve seen in pursuing Boy Scout badges, completing baseball card collections, earning multiple university degrees, etc. And in this case, achieving 5 Star PADI MSD certification.

 

[Steve_C]

The value of a course depends in part on when you take it. I took PADI deep after several hundred dives while working on my DM. FIgured since I might be assisting on Deep I should go through it. Had a number of dives over 100 ft at that point and carried a pony. Did learn one thing. If you are instructing DEEP in late October in NC and you have am experienced student diving an HP100 in a 7mm you should not wear a 3mm and expect a 20 min dive. We had come up to the top of the wreck at 40 ft and he was looking so miserable that I thumbed the dive at only 40 minutes.

 

[Storker]

For me, it is really strange that an academic can endorse so enthusiastically the PADI commitment to hook divers, with the main goal of squeezing money from them.

I didn't read it that way. I read it as an endorsement of PADI providing regular bite-sized pieces of the curriculum, with regular training and repetition. Which is a well-proven, effective and good way to ensure retention of what has been taught.

This is rather basic pedagogy, and since you're a university professor I would have assumed that you knew this as well as I do.

Since PADI, as opposed to most universities, are in the business of making money, it's only natural that they try to get some money from their customers (students). I don't think they'd be dominating the scuba class world if they didn't do it to make money. Look at e.g. CMAS or BSAC, they are far from being in the same position. And even though my highest cert is issued by CMAS, I'll readily admit that PADI's teaching material is quite superior, at least for the majority of students who aren't in the top tier WRT dedication and talent. I know a highly ranked CMAS instructor, and he admits all the time that PADI has some excellent training material, a lot of it much better than what he has access to through his current agency.

 

[Storker]

How about 5 stars if you're still alive after 2000 dives?

I've got three.

But none of them are from PADI

EDIT: @Efka76 , I don't know your motivation for collecting those stars. Some folks seem to collect C-cards for a hobby. Nothing wrong with that, other people collect stamps. But that's not for me. In your position, I'd seriously consider which of those specialties would be useful to me, take them and forget about the stars. Or, if you're into stars, you can do like I did: Cross over to CMAS, who give 1* diver, 2* diver and 3* diver classes.

When I'd completed my RD, I figured that PADI didn't have much to offer which I wanted. To become a dive leader in PADI, you have to "go pro". I have no ambitions of "going pro", so I crossed over to one of the club diving agencies, CMAS. Another agency with a similar philosophy is BSAC. There you can take a cert which complies with the same ISO standard as PADI DM does, but with a few extra bells and whistles. Another option to improve your diving which already has been mentioned is GUE Fundamentals. I haven't taken that (yet), but I've only heard good things about it from a sizable number of people I know who have.