PADI Bashers

[Karibelle]

Honestly, if they start doing that, I would just let my cert expire, and dive off my boat, or friend's boats. You can go to Palau and many of the best places around the world and just hire a boat and a captain....who really needs operators and the "five stars"?

No offense meant, but you don't seem to have bought into the idea that you are a dive professional anyway. And I am speaking specifically about periodic recerts for instructors, not DMs (although I think that's not a bad idea either).

kari

 

[MaconBubbles]

And now...we have the new "Shallow Water Diving Program." Just read about it in the Alert Diver magazine for May/June 07. However, there is nothing to stop those divers from going below 30 ft, just like there is no cave police to keep me out of a cave or above 60 ft until I get my AOW. Interesting.

 

[Cacia]

I am just saying that if PADI starts requiring anybody to recert periodically, they will lose many to other agencies, or no agency at all.

The market won't bear it, in my opinion. (Just my opinion) Not meant to upset the "professionals" that's kind of a silly term anyway...How long is the training?

PADI Instructors are already giving PADI too much of a cut. Somebody should look at the number of years it takes before the average Instructor figures that out. Because I don't see too many older, experienced PADI professionals doing it as a mainstay too many years, do you? Guess Walter and I are just old and grumpy.

Maybe it is different in Canada...I'm just asking.

 

[tedtim]

Honestly, if they start doing that, I would just let my cert expire, and dive off my boat, or friend's boats. You can go to Palau and many of the best places around the world and just hire a boat and a captain....who really needs operators and the "five stars"?

They are there for people who want to pay them to make their diving more convenient, safer, etc. It is a service. Once they become a PITA...many will just dump them altogether. I'm really mostly already there, if I am honest.

The final straw for me was the stupidity of the medical waivers and the power tripping involved of telling infomed, educated people once they get to a destination who can dive, who can't....I just don't really think PADI makes my diving better, easier, or anything at all.

I know lots of fantastic PADI instructors that make diving on vacation or getting certified a good experience. After that...the agencies needs seem to come first.

Catherine, since I was the one that posted and Kari responded, let me clarify a bit. My post referred to recertification for the instructors, not for individuals. Professionals should be willing to undergo periodic evaluations and take continuing education to maintain their professional status. IMO it is not sufficient just to get the instructor certification.

As for everyone else, well, that is an individual decision.

Edit: I find it interesting that someone who considers themsef (no one in particular here, just a general statement) is not willing to undergo continuing education or take steps to ensure that what they are doing is aligned with the current standards, that they would complain that the agency should not bother them. A couple of years ago PADI made some significant changes to the Rescue Course. I (a lowly DM) went to a session sponsored by PADI where one of the CD travelled to different locations to hold a seminar and skill session on the revision. I was really surprized at how few instructors attended. A number of them that I spoke with said simply that they were aware of the changes and had read the revisions. All in the interest of saving a few $$ by not paying to attend the seminar. IMO a lack of professionalism.

Heck, you have to pay to be a member of PADI (and I believe other agencies too). I still hold a pilot licence for which I pay no annual fee, but if I wanted to fly again I would have to maintain the licence through periodic skill evaluations. Guess what, I would have to pay for the flight time when the evaluator goes with me. It is a cost of having the licence. The dive professional should seek to continue to improve. You pay for the little sticker that goes on your card issued by PADI that indicates that you can act as a dive professional. You would think that PADI would have an interest in ensuring that individuals truly do act as professionals. Alas, the "they are just in it for the money" comments will come out again.

Those that really care will not be bothered by a set of requirements that have to be fulfilled to maintain their professional certification. IMO they will view it as a good thing that will help to promote the organization.

 

[LIVES4SHARKS]

Ok, this is the perspective of a newly certified OW diver. One thing I have seen and experienced is the conflicts between OW and DIR and GUE and Cave. The games and politics are very discouraging and very much unnecessary. My training was SSI. I came out of that knowing the very minimum about diving and basically was told that all will come to me with more diving. But, if you aren't told or taught what to do in the beginning, how was it going to be possible for this "enlightenment" to suddenly hit me after 25 dives? I was lucky to have found someone to help me see diving from a different approach. This has lead me down a different path....the "dark" path as I am finding out, into DIR. Now, I have experienced another situation with my LDS and basically have been ridiculed for my set up and that I practice in the pool. I was told to my face, that it is not possible to learn buoyancy in a pool. Hmmm water is water or so I thought. So as a new diver, where do you go next? What agency do you turn to that allows you to improve and train without being scrutinized? Of all the sports I have participated in, this one has the most variances and the most ingrained hatred and/or sterotypes. Again, as a new diver, this is very disheartening. After training with my LDS I went on a trip with them to get some saltwater experience. It was my first vacation, for me, and I wanted it to be amazing. However, since my OW cert., I have changed some things in my gear and have been working very dilligently on my trim and buoyancy and of course breathing. I was excited to show my instructor how hard I worked and what I have done. Well, after my first dive, I was ridiculed for my long hose and that my frog kick was useless in OW. I then was left underwater, going to the line by myself since I used more air than anyone else. Ummm at this point I had 12 dives under my belt, none in rough seas or saltwater. So, I realized that the people who trained me basically left me out in the cold since I seemed to no longer be in "their club"! So in the last 4 months, I got to experience a lot of different attitudes, but I have also met alot of amazing divers. I look at diving differently now and look for like minded divers to help me develop my skills to take me where I want to go.

OH! Last time I checked, an acronym never helped me become a better diver!

HAPPY DIVING Y'ALL!
Carolyn:sharks:

 

[Cacia]

Okay..I still feel that having to recert as a PADI instructor would be bad for PADI as an agency. Do you really think they would go for that? I am serious. You should see what they make here, and how very hard they work.

I don't really feel the need to bash PADI anymore. I just wish they would be nicer to "their people".

 

[SparticleBrane]

I was told to my face, that it is not possible to learn buoyancy in a pool.

Wow um....that's complete and utter BS.
Obviously whoever told you that never tried to maintain good trim and buoyancy in the shallow (4' or less) end of a pool, under a lane rope...or perhaps they just can't.

 

[Charlie59]

Uh, can I say that I don't have any problems with PADI.

Thank you very much.

 

[in_cavediver]

One thing I like about the SSI manual is the "Diver's Diamond", which is probably trademarked. The diamond consists of knowledge, equipment, skill, and experience. The problem occurs when something goes wrong on a dive. The OW course can't cover every potential situation.

I have only one thing to say and it directed at all of the agencies OW programs.

The goal is simple. At the end, the diver is to be trained to safely dive independently in conditions as good or better than they were trained in.

By many posters own admission in this thread, this standard isn't being met and people aren't jumping up and down about it? Why is that? Is it OK to say 'take AOW to spend more time with an instructor'? Why not say 'lets do more dives before we give you an OW card'?

The answer to this is very simple. Money and market demand. Customers want it faster, quicker with less effort. The agencies are providing the framework to do just that. The customer base is buying into it and the world goes on and starts believing newly minted OW divers shouldn't be expected to have basic dive skills down pat.

 

[plot]

You can trash all the agencies all you want, a diver who cares about his well being will realize that a bad instructor can make them all suck equally and take it upon himself to farthur his or her training on his/her own.

You become a good diver by actually diving, practicing your skills routinly, diving with a consistant buddy, hanging out with other much more experienced divers and learning from them, and from... well, from reading scuba board. You won't learn it in some classroom.

Fact is, until some global diving police force is created, all agencies OW trainings are going to be geared towards once or twice a year vacation divers that never go below 30 feet, and for that, any agency is more than adequate in my opinion.