PADI Bashers

[ScubaTexan]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Agency attacks are a violation of the Terms of Service and will not be tolerated in this or any other thread. Please stop the bashing and stay on track with the original post.

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[Walter]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Agency attacks are a violation of the Terms of Service and will not be tolerated in this or any other thread. Please stop the bashing and stay on track with the original post.

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There has been no bashing in this thread.

 

[RiverRat]

There has been no bashing in this thread.

I agree, speaking about bashing, or agency differences and "bashing" are two different things.

 

[Walter]

The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of people out there who feel they are superior to others baised on any number of things.

We are all superior to others in some ways and inferior to others in other ways. Wishing away differences accomplishes nothing.

As I have stated I am a new diver so I don't have the backround to tell the SCUBA Gods anything, but let me say this. I have been involved in a number of activities throughout my life (Skydiving, Motorcycle racing, Firefighting, etc) and one thing rings true in all activities.

The people that stay alive are the people that know their limits and stick to them.

How do you know your limits? If you truly did graduate from a two weekend class, you are probably exceeding your limits every time you dive.

In my opinion a diver who realizes this is a good diver and an instrustor who instills this is a good instructor.

That's merely one tiny part of being a good diver or a good instructor.

Please don't think I was feeling personally attacked by the "PADI Bashers" I just thought my tongue in cheek question would get some conversation going other than "well thats PADI for you" or "What do you expect from PADI".

I don't believe your post was tongue in cheek.

 

[ekewaka]

I think the difference between PADI and most of the other agencies is the prescriptive training method. The standards are all equally inadequate, but PADI has more restrictions that actually prevent the instructors from teaching the necessary skills, while NAUI and some of the other agencies give the instructors the freedom teach additional skills above and beyond the minimum.

 

[mjatkins]

I think the difference between PADI and most of the other agencies is the prescriptive training method. The standards are all equally inadequate, but PADI has more restrictions that actually prevent the instructors from teaching the necessary skills, while NAUI and some of the other agencies give the instructors the freedom teach additional skills above and beyond the minimum.

Where do you get the impression that PADI "has more restrictions that actually prevent the instructors from teaching the necessary skills"? Could you give examples of what lead you to this belief?

Thanks

 

[ekewaka]

Where do you get the impression that PADI "has more restrictions that actually prevent the instructors from teaching the necessary skills"? Could you give examples of what lead you to this belief?

Thanks

One example is the requirement that most of the skills be done while kneeling on the bottom.

 

[jbd]

One example is the requirement that most of the skills be done while kneeling on the bottom.

I don't believe that is an issue solely restricted to PADI. I get the impression that this is the method used by most instructors regardless of agency affiliation. I have seen it with NAUI and SSI as well as PADI instructors. There are, no doubt, instructors from the other agencies that teach in a like manner.

 

[fire_diver]

Wow!
Thanks for all the input.
So far my post has done what I wanted it to do. We are looking at what is good and bad about organizations, instructors and divers.

Well, next time do a "search" first. This topic has only been discussed about 20 times so far this year. And countless times over that number of years this board has existed.
Initializing healthy debate is fine, just make sure it's on a topic NOT brought up once a week. HmmmmKayyy?

 

[tedtim]

The sarcasm makes one question your desire to, “find out why?” You are confusing critiques of a particular training approach and corporate policy with your individual situation. Whether you are a “good” diver or not has nothing to do with PADI per se, it has to do with what you were taught and how well training program that underwent imparted to you the requisite knowledge and skills. There a is legitimate difference of opinion on both what the requisite knowledge and skills are and how well they should be performed prior to certification. <snipped>

I am going to disagree with your selection of "critique." My understanding of a proper critique includes three essential elements:

Good points or what went well.

Bad points or what did not go well.

How to improve upon the bad points.

What I find from reading the posts on SB is that by far the emphasis is on what is bad. There are very few folks that offer any any suggestions on how to improve. Just stating that an agencies standards are sub-standard is not sufficient. Thal, I know that you have offered may posts on what you see as the deficiencies and your view on how to improve upon the status quo. There are a few others that have done so as well. Unfortunately I believe that you are in the minority. Most of the posts offer only a negative aspect - there is no balance.

Yeah, now I know that there will be those twits who resond with well, PADI has nothing good to offer and bring out the tired aspect of money driving the business. There is nothing constructive offered in these types of comments. I believe that is why the OP views what he has read as bashing - a lack of any balance with a focus on the negative only.

The standards may well be deficient, but I believe that the your statement "Whether you are a “good” diver or not has nothing to do with PADI per se, it has to do with what you were taught and how well training program that underwent imparted to you the requisite knowledge and skills."

Perhaps the focus should not be the standards, but on the training of the instructors. There are crappy instructors related to many agencies. The best one that I have had was teaching a PADI course, the worst was teaching a DAN course. The problem here IMO is the consistency. I don't know of any recreational training agency that requires their instructors to undergo periodic recertification. If these folks are truly professionals they should be willing to take continuing education as part of maintaining their certification. Also, the agencies should set a minimum requirement for conducting courses in a given period of time in an attempt to ensure that the instructors maintain their instructional skills.

Now, I expect the standard response is that it won't happen because people will rebel. Well go ahead and rebel - if instructors want to be considered as professionals they should act as such. Continuing education is part of this. Periodic re-evaluation of skills is part of this. You should hold yourself to a higher standard if you are a professional.

Then again, if the statistics show that a SCUBA instructor lasts only three years, maybe some of the really poor ones are weeding themselves out. Unfortunately, the damage is already done.