PADI Bashers

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Okay, I've developed a real rash reading "it's not the agency it's the instructor." Why should I have to wring my hands and worry that the instructor I've chosen is going to give me an inferior education? Why? Why do I have to police these people who should be my teachers and mentors? I'm not turning this into a GUE or DIR thread so don't take it that way, but when I found GUE I saw that EVERY instructor was on their website. Every single one. I can click on his name and I can see what his experience in detail is, and I know that GUE guarentees me quality. So why can't PADI and other puppy mill organizations have these same high standards? It isn't fair to new divers, who know NOTHING, to get boned by these people. I'll tell you why people don't stick around in the hobby after certification, it's because of the training. If I had not taken it upon myself to find a BETTER organization, BETTER training, and a BETTER community I would not still be diving today. I would have given up from incompetence and fear, all because my OW instruction was inferior. Stop saying it's the instructors fault. It's the AGENCY'S fault for certifying as many instructors as they can with NO REGARD for what kind of person they are giving this powerful title of INSTRUCTOR to.
 
Advokat:
I was trained for AOW over 2 days and did theory all by my self.I cant tell it was that bad.Just continue diving and take AOW and RESCUE and you will improve your diving.Nobody is a good diver,when they first start.

PADI is just a business and they want your money.You'll find it almost the same with every other dive association,which all took off after PADI.

Isn't it the other way around. I thought the people that formed PADI broke away from NAUI when they wanted to form a for-profit corporation.

I also believe the YMCA scuba program preceded both NAUI and PADI.
 
ekewaka:
One example is the requirement that most of the skills be done while kneeling on the bottom.

Sorry, PADI has no such requirement.
 
tedtim:
Now, I expect the standard response is that it won't happen because people will rebel. Well go ahead and rebel - if instructors want to be considered as professionals they should act as such. Continuing education is part of this. Periodic re-evaluation of skills is part of this. You should hold yourself to a higher standard if you are a professional.
I think that periodic recertification would be a great idea, and I would welcome the opportunity to be re-evaluated from time to time. I found my instructor training course excellent in pointing out areas where I needed to improve. Without something to focus on, it is difficult to know what one should be doing. "Get thee forth and practice your CESA demonstration!" or some such.

In the absence of any agency requiring this, I think a commitment to personal further education is a good start... to get oneself in front of another instructor and ask for critique (as you've defined it, not as scubaboard does:14:).

kari
 
sorry to say, to my eyes a lot of the concerns about what new divers aren't taught comes across as elitist.

i just thought i'd point that out. everyone has to start somewhere, and a lot of "good" diving techqnique is about practice rather than instruction :/
 
One thing I like about the SSI manual is the "Diver's Diamond", which is probably trademarked. The diamond consists of knowledge, equipment, skill, and experience. The problem occurs when something goes wrong on a dive. The OW course can't cover every potential situation.


SkullDeformity:
Okay, I've developed a real rash reading "it's not the agency it's the instructor." Why should I have to wring my hands and worry that the instructor I've chosen is going to give me an inferior education? Why? Why do I have to police these people who should be my teachers and mentors?

I cut Skull's post down because he was going a different direction than the point I want to make. There's a minimum, the OW instructors should teach that or more. Personally I think too many take the OW course thinking it is all they need. It is the beginning not the end. At some point the individual has to seek better skills/instructors out on their own. The instructor that taught you to drive probably isn't the one that trains you to drive a 200 MPH lap at Indy. If it were, the 200 MPH trainer would be wasting their skill on 95% or more of their students.


String:
General open-water entry level courses are just that, a basic introduction to diving and certainly not a place to stop training or learning.

My advice to anyone learning to dive is to experience a few different agencies through the course of their training. Then you'll pick up the good parts some have to offer, recognise their bad parts and generally have a broader and more balance knowledge base.

To echo String, there are things I like and dislike about the SSI, PADI, and NAUI manuals. Continuing the training is more important than starting with any one in particular.


TSandM:
But there are some statistics that suggest that a truly sad number of people get certified to dive and never dive again, or dive for a short time and quit. And one wonders how many of those people quit because they either got frightened, or because their poor skills made diving just not be any fun for them.

There's a wash-out point in a number of human pursuits. Anxiety exceeds pleasure and they leave (including the extreme "oh my ****" experience)? Been there, done that, on to something better?

I don't know I'd call it sad. If they enjoyed it and want to move on, power to them. If they had a bad experience they were not prepared for, that's sad.


TSandM:
I don't think I would have continued diving, had I tried to get on with the skill set I had at the end of OW. I was lucky enough to run into NWGratefulDiver, an instructor who had decided to go beyond the minimum standards for his students, and I have since gone on to more rigorous and (in my personal opinion, which is my right) better training, which has rendered diving safer and more fun for me.

There's always something different with the ones that hang in there. What's the Stockdale Paradox of diving? Goal focus? Are we not afraid of drowning? Not bright enough to be afraid of drowning? :D Somewhere I read that there's a control issue (i.e. by diving we increase our control over the environment).
 
ronbeau:
Isn't it the other way around. I thought the people that formed PADI broke away from NAUI when they wanted to form a for-profit corporation.

I also believe the YMCA scuba program preceded both NAUI and PADI.

Here's the sequence:
1954 LA County
1959 YMCA
1960 NAUI
1966 PADI
 
I think that periodic recertification would be a great idea,

Honestly, if they start doing that, I would just let my cert expire, and dive off my boat, or friend's boats. You can go to Palau and many of the best places around the world and just hire a boat and a captain....who really needs operators and the "five stars"?

They are there for people who want to pay them to make their diving more convenient, safer, etc. It is a service. Once they become a PITA...many will just dump them altogether. I'm really mostly already there, if I am honest.

The final straw for me was the stupidity of the medical waivers and the power tripping involved of telling infomed, educated people once they get to a destination who can dive, who can't....I just don't really think PADI makes my diving better, easier, or anything at all.

I know lots of fantastic PADI instructors that make diving on vacation or getting certified a good experience. After that...the agencies needs seem to come first.
 
pwl:
sorry to say, to my eyes a lot of the concerns about what new divers aren't taught comes across as elitist.

i just thought i'd point that out. everyone has to start somewhere, and a lot of "good" diving techqnique is about practice rather than instruction :/
I agree with you to a point. The problem is that without instruction, most divers don't know what to practice. How will they practice horizontal trim, when they have never even heard that they should? How will they practice gas planning, when they don't even know the definition of SAC rate? How will they practice proper ascent techniques when they haven't been taught even the slightest bit of decompression theory?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom