Packetsniffer / Jackson Blue

[Meng_Tze]

There is nothing wrong with discussing the matters here. This forum is here to discuss the accidents. A memorial forum is elsewhere.

 

[Cave Diver]

There is nothing wrong with discussing the matters here. This forum is here to discuss the accidents. A memorial forum is elsewhere.

Sorry, I've been jumping back and forth amongst forums so much sometimes I forget which one I'm in. Carry on!

 

[aainslie]

Hey Freddy,

Thanks for letting me know this thread was going. This is a horrible accident, but i really hope we can learn from it. While I never met Richard I had a great opinion of him from his posts. he was a thoughtful, intelligent diver.

It really worries me that there was only one exhalation. makes me wonder if the following horrible scenario didn't unfold:

1) They're scootering in. Often one gets free flows. I know that occasionally my reaction is to shut down the cylinder causing the freeflow.

2) He forgets to switch that cylinder back on when done.

3) Later, he takes a CO2 hit. He switches over to the BOV, exhales, and inhales... and there's nothing there. I hate to think how he'd react. CO2 hits cause extremely irrational, panicked reactions. This would just be a horrible situation.

This gels with his being found with his BOV out of his mouth - he then would have spat it out.

Of course it's hugely speculative that he switched off the cylinder on the BOV for scootering - but there are a few scenarios under which the BOV wouldn't provide gas when he switched to it. And my God, that would be a horrible scenario to face. And the single exhalation really makes me think that may have happened.

Very tragic.

 

[PerroneFord]

They didn't scooter in. They dropped the scooters in the cavern according to the buddy's report. Richard's malfunctioned on entry.

 

[dweyant]

Hey Freddy,
1) They're scootering in. Often one gets free flows. I know that occasionally my reaction is to shut down the cylinder causing the freeflow.

2) He forgets to switch that cylinder back on when done.

3) Later, he takes a CO2 hit. He switches over to the BOV, exhales, and inhales... and there's nothing there. I hate to think how he'd react. CO2 hits cause extremely irrational, panicked reactions. This would just be a horrible situation.
Very tragic.

Andrew,

Richard and I where talking about you on our drive over to Marianna on Thursday. He had said you had exchanged some very good e-mails, and had good things to say about you.

To your points, I can add a couple things.

1) We were swimming. It had been planned as a scooter dive, but Richard's scooter was acting up so we wound up swimming.

2) I hope that the IUCRR report will have details like tank pressures that will hopefully tell us if the rest of your scenario makes sense, however one thing to keep in mind is I likely used a significant amount of gas out of one of his bailout/stage bottles in my attempts to rescusitate him.


Someone asked about the BOV, yes he had one, and I'm fairly certain (i.e. I didn't see it, but Richard had talked about it) that he was using the Golem Gear radial scrubber.

-Dan

 

[Meng_Tze]

...
Someone asked about the BOV, yes he had one, and I'm fairly certain (i.e. I didn't see it, but Richard had talked about it) that he was using the Golem Gear radial scrubber.

-Dan

Dan,
Do you know if the BOV was hooked up to the on board dil or one of the off board bottles?

From what I read, you did all you could.

 

[aainslie]

Andrew,

Richard and I where talking about you on our drive over to Marianna on Thursday. He had said you had exchanged some very good e-mails, and had good things to say about you.

To your points, I can add a couple things.

1) We were swimming. It had been planned as a scooter dive, but Richard's scooter was acting up so we wound up swimming.

2) I hope that the IUCRR report will have details like tank pressures that will hopefully tell us if the rest of your scenario makes sense, however one thing to keep in mind is I likely used a significant amount of gas out of one of his bailout/stage bottles in my attempts to rescusitate him.


Someone asked about the BOV, yes he had one, and I'm fairly certain (i.e. I didn't see it, but Richard had talked about it) that he was using the Golem Gear radial scrubber.

-Dan

Dan,

Thanks so much for participating like this. I really feel for you. And thanks for the feedback on the BOV.

I've had some scary moments myself when I've switched off stages and stuff and forgotten - then when I had to get onto them, I had to do some really quick thinking after a full exhale. It's bad enough doing this without a CO2 issue. In conjunction with a CO2 hit, it would be incredibly difficult to react rationally. Still, mine is only one of many scenarios that might have occurred.

These events are very difficult to pin down unequivocally. But your forthcoming attitude helps us learn incredibly. Thanks again.

 

[texdiveguy]

These events are very difficult to pin down unequivocally.

There are other issues here beyond just CO2 that will be considered in the investigation. It's helpful to have the discussions as provide here, but 'unequivocally' about sums it up at this stage.

Dan, we all take comfort in knowing you applied your best efforts for Richard, and you commend our respect for stepping up with the dive information you have so far, as this is how you recall it. Thanks from fellow divers.

 

[amascuba]

We reached the third T at ~58 minutes. Richard made a left and headed down the Rabbit Hole. I began to follow Richard down the rabbit hole, but he stopped just inside the entrance. After Richard swam in place for about 5 seconds, then I noticed a relatively large (about equal to an OC exhale) amount of bubbles from his head area. He continued to swim in place for another 5 seconds, and I flashed him with my primary light. My intention was to get him to turn around so I could suggest that we take the other direction around the T. Almost immediately after I flashed Richard, he began to turn around (my belief was that he was acknowledging my flashing). By the time Richard got turned around (at most 5-10 seconds), I could tell something wasn’t right. His light was flashing around (like he was holding it loosely) and his movement was jerky, not his normal very fluid movements.

Richard bolted past me towards the T and the entrance. I immediately turned to follow and overtake Richard. After several seconds, and almost exactly 60 minutes into the dive, Richard stopped swimming. This was about 5 feet downstream from the Third T and right on top of the gold line. I was on top of Richard in less than 5 seconds.

When I reached him he was jerking, and his loop was floating above his head (his loop had been in his mouth just seconds earlier when he swam past me). I immediately deployed the OC reg from one of his 32% bail out bottles. I put the reg in his mouth, and when he did not immediately attempt to breathe off of it, I purged the reg for him.

For the next 15 minutes I held the regulator in Richard mouth purging it at regular intervals in the hope that he was getting some gas and at some point he would begin to breathe. At first it seemed like he might have been trying to breathe, but that quickly subsided, and after that he was completely unresponsive.

Dan,

Thank for for posting this information. I can only assume that this must have been very hard to relive those moments and share this information with us. I think that you did all that you could have done in the situation and provided the assistance that I would want from a buddy in a similar situation and hope that I have the level head to provide that same level of assistance if I'm ever faced with a similar situation. Thanks again.

There are so many clues and little tidbits of information just with in those four paragraphs. It still amazes me how fast events like this can progress. It appears that this possibly all took place in a matter of ~5 minutes.

 

[Dr. Doug Ebersole]

Dan:

Thank you so much for sharing your memories of such a horrible event. You are to be commended both for your actions and your willingness to share your experience with others so that we can all learn something from this terrible tragedy. The details are very helpful to those of us who cave dive and are rebreather divers. My thoughts and prayers are with you and Richard's family.

God bless.

Doug