OW Maximum Dive Depth?

[k ellis]

in my honest opinion I think it makes good sense to recommend staying shallower then 60 feet at first because so many things play in to the scenario. One being that wearing the gear is still a relatively new concept and its task loading in itself to attempt to maintain neutral buoyancy, Monitor air consumption, keep up with your buddy, monitor depth and the list goes on and on.

As experience is gained many task loading becomes second nature and allows to move into more relaxed breathing. I have dove myself when new and have even observed new divers who burn through air so fast they literaly if paying attention would be in trouble at more then 60 feet.

My first dive outside of certification was a record setting 60 feet for only 10 minutes or so which I was so embarrased. Now I do 100 feet and have more gas then NDL time.

I would recommend though if you have a little extra cash though just get an advanced certification and it will automaticly take you out of having to worry about that. I personaly have certified in Deep and AOW just to keep from missing the boat on the best dives

 

[Squirm88]

I would recommend though if you have a little extra cash though just get an advanced certification and it will automaticly take you out of having to worry about that. I personaly have certified in Deep and AOW just to keep from missing the boat on the best dives

Having my fiance complete the AOW course is on our short list of things to do but there is no way we can squeeze it in before we go on our honeymoon to Turks and Caicos later this month. I agree the more training you can get the better. My fiance's father is a retired Navy EOD diver and has a wealth of diving experience and knowledge and he also agrees she should complete the AOW course.

 

[explorer08]

When I did my OW certification 18 years ago there was no 60' restriction. We were taught how to use a dive table past 60' and we learned the physiological effects on the body that deeper dives may cause.

Are OW students today not taught how to compute and plan dives past 60' using a dive table? Is the science behind diving no longer being taught? Do their written exams not have any dive table problems past 60', or questions on nitrogen narcosis, etc...?

I don't know from which agency your OW certification is, but I am a PADI Instructor since 1989 and at least with regards to PADI you are true, there was no 60' restriction 18 years ago, as it is not today. But there ever has been a 60' recommendation for new certified OW divers.

Also today their students are taught how to compute and plan dives past 60' and their exams contain questions concerning dives past 60' and on nitrogen narcosis, as well as 18 years ago. The only thing that has changed is, that it is now given to the discretion of the instructor, if he will teach how to use dive tables or how to use dive computers.

Everything else has been explained very well by k ellis, today at 01:33 AM.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Way too many people worry about risks of litigation that just don't exist.

That is very true in the US also. But it is also true that too many people fail to worry about just being decent and responsible citizens, which is why the laws and lawyers are there in the first place. The enemy is us.

 

[scubassplayer]

in my honest opinion I think it makes good sense to recommend staying shallower then 60 feet at first because so many things play in to the scenario. One being that wearing the gear is still a relatively new concept and its task loading in itself to attempt to maintain neutral buoyancy, Monitor air consumption, keep up with your buddy, monitor depth and the list goes on and on.

As experience is gained many task loading becomes second nature and allows to move into more relaxed breathing. I have dove myself when new and have even observed new divers who burn through air so fast they literaly if paying attention would be in trouble at more then 60 feet.

My first dive outside of certification was a record setting 60 feet for only 10 minutes or so which I was so embarrased. Now I do 100 feet and have more gas then NDL time.

I would recommend though if you have a little extra cash though just get an advanced certification and it will automaticly take you out of having to worry about that. I personaly have certified in Deep and AOW just to keep from missing the boat on the best dives

I agree with this. Although this is a nice discussion about limits, in the real world on a vacation you are held to the rules of the dive operator. This is why I am currently taking my AOW & Deep so as not to be left on the boat. It has nothing to do with skills and or ability, but it will reduce the chance of losing out on a dive opportunity because of paperwork.

 

[explorer08]

in the real world on a vacation you are held to the rules of the dive operator. This is why I am currently taking my AOW & Deep so as not to be left on the boat. It has nothing to do with skills and or ability, but it will reduce the chance of losing out on a dive opportunity because of paperwork.

This is a really got point of view.
As we have elaborated before, there is no depth restriction by the agencies. They only give recommendations.

But – every dive operators operation is his castle. So he may set up what ever rule he wants to. The customers than are free to accept his rules or to stay out of this operation, what in some remote operation may mean not to dive for a complete vacation.
Some operators may set up the 60’ rule for OW divers as part of their risk management with regards to possible litigation. For others it is only a tool to prevent them from discussions with their customers, why diver A is entitled to take part on a specific dive, while diver B – with a C-Card of the same level – is not.

Even just for to prevent any problems with some dive operators the AOW certification should be worth its money for every serious diver.
On the other hand, we may start an endless discussion now, if the content of an AOW course is sufficient or if they should contain much more stuff. Let it be whatever it is. At least every diver should come out of his AOW class with some more knowledge than he entered it. If not, his instructor did a more than poor job.

 

[k ellis]

This is a really got point of view.
As we have elaborated before, there is no depth restriction by the agencies. They only give recommendations.

But – every dive operators operation is his castle. So he may set up what ever rule he wants to. The customers than are free to accept his rules or to stay out of this operation, what in some remote operation may mean not to dive for a complete vacation.
Some operators may set up the 60’ rule for OW divers as part of their risk management with regards to possible litigation. For others it is only a tool to prevent them from discussions with their customers, why diver A is entitled to take part on a specific dive, while diver B – with a C-Card of the same level – is not.

Even just for to prevent any problems with some dive operators the AOW certification should be worth its money for every serious diver.
On the other hand, we may start an endless discussion now, if the content of an AOW course is sufficient or if they should contain much more stuff. Let it be whatever it is. At least every diver should come out of his AOW class with some more knowledge than he entered it. If not, his instructor did a more than poor job.

This is a good point indeed. When I took advanced open water it was for a variety of reasons. One reason was it sort of guaranteed me that I would have a dive buddy to log some great bottom time. Also I was kind of nervous at the thought of the deep 100' dive so it gave me a chance to dive there and see if I would like it. It was my air hog days so a bounce dive gave me just barely enough air to return to the surface. Scary huh? Just touch bottom at 100' and ascend right then and still only had 500 lbs of air left. That in itself should stand as a warning as to why people should progress slowly into deeper waters

Advanced open water was little more to me then just a here it is and go have fun dives. But its alot like so many other things in life its practice and with each dive you do you get just a hair better then your previous dive. So people who knock AOW just need to remember its a stepping stone and like all stepping stones you dont have to use it to climb a mountain it just makes it easier.

 

[rstofer]

Well I guess that was part of my question. When I did my OW certification 18 years ago there was no 60' restriction. We were taught how to use a dive table past 60' and we learned the physiological effects on the body that deeper dives may cause.

Are OW students today not taught how to compute and plan dives past 60' using a dive table? Is the science behind diving no longer being taught? Do their written exams not have any dive table problems past 60', or questions on nitrogen narcosis, etc...?

I took my training in 1988 and NAUI had recommendations even back then. I may be faulty in my memory but I believe OW I was 40', OW II was 60' and AOW was 100'. I tried to look it up in my old texts but I couldn't find it.

But there were recommendations, even back then. My wife got her certification (SSI) in '94 (16 years ago) and there were certainly recommendations at that time. So, I guess it depends on which agency is being discussed.

The point is that dive planning beyond 60' is a little more critical. Air gets used at a much higher rate, NDLs are much shorter and the risk is higher. AFAIK, OW students learn next to nothing about dive planning. The dive tables are given short shrift and a calculator is used to get the NDL. What the calculator doesn't provide is RNT.

In any event, some agencies are going to drop the whole dive table/calculator thing in favor of just teaching the use of a dive computer. So, no, OW students are not really getting a lot of training in dive planning.

Back in the day (groan...) NAUI required 100% correct answers to dive table questions even though passing the exam did not require 100%. No errors of any kind on dive table questions. But there were no computers... A diver would literally live or die based on their knowledge of the tables.

Depth recommendatiions and small tanks helped prevent exceeding the NDLs. It's no coincidence that most students use Al 80 tanks. They are floaty and they don't have much air. Even warm water divers will have to carry some weight - hopefully ditchable.

From the dive operator's point of view, the AOW card implies that some instructor, somewhere, was, at one time, willing to certify that the student had certain capabilities. While we can all agree that the certification is meaningless, from the operator's point of view, a diver without the card is highly suspect. No instructor, anywhere, at any time, was willing to certify that the student had the requisite skills. So, no card, no dive. Pretty easy to understand. Shared liability; the card implies certain qualifications upon which the dive operator may rely (somewhat). The diver was, at one time, trained to certain standards.

Richard

 

[Steve50]

While we can all agree that the certification is meaningless, .....
Richard

I don't agree

 

[rstofer]

I don't agree

OK...

But I look at the certification as meaningless because: it could be like mine - 22 years old. Who cares how it was back then? This is today and things are different (not necessarily better). It could be that it was just a meager collection of five dives; the deep dive lasted about 10 minutes and still didn't cover dive planning.

So, we don't all have to agree that AOW is meaningless but as I see if offered today, I don't see much value other than 5 additional supervised dives. But different agencies have different programs and some may be better than others.

Still, within the PADI program AOW only means 9 dives (4 for OW, 5 for AOW). That's not a lot of experience even if it does include a deep dive.

Richard