OW Maximum Dive Depth?

[DevonDiver]

Wow this all seems sooo strange. I was certified in 1965. No tank pressure guage just a J valve. Whenthe breathing got tough (hard to breathe) you had 5 min to the surface before out of air. Npw we have SPGs and most diverd die because they are "out of air" ! Why.................................................... ?

I dove to 180 ft on air with an "OW" certification and a 72 cu ft steel tank.
I watched others "bounce dive " to 250 ft with the same rig. We all lived.

Whilst I agree with much of your post - I do have a few thoughts.

Firstly, the above statement - not really true. As far as I am aware, the rate of fatal dive accidents and DCI incidence was considerably higher than modern levels... even given the 'Disneylandization' (and dumbing down) of modern diving.

I dove that way until one day in Grand Cayman the dive master said "all of you with computers on this side of the boat and those with no computers on the other side". Hearing the command I stepped to the "computer" side of the boat. When the dive master said "where's your computer" I pointed to my head. (realizing that not having a computer was a marker for being incompetent). In self defense I bought a computer. I have been asked "why don't you surface as soon as the computer clears ? The answer is gas laws and probability. No one ever died of a nice long deco/safety stop.

Absolutely. The convenience of modern diving....let alone modern life... does insulate people from risks. Modern society is much less risk aware. I wasn't alive in 1965, but I have spent some time in the military, and even more time living, working and travelling in less developed countries. That experience has taught me how 'bad stuff happens' - but I don't see that mindset present in most of my friends and family back at home in the '1st World'. They live sedentary lives, with every 'mod-con' and a great deal of regulations in force to preserve their safety on their behalf. The need for common-sense and a sense of self-vulnerability is virtually nil. If something does go wrong, they seek to level blame at someone else - hence the heavily litigious society.

I also think that some people who live in very risk-insulated lives develop a desire to actually add risk - for excitement, self-worth, ego, whatever. We could call this the 'Fight Club' drive. But they do so without that sense of vulnerability. Hence the 'Jackass' generation - who push things further and further without regard for safety.

In 1965, a 'bounce' dive to 250' was a fact of life for a diver. It was taken with all due seriousness, preparation and common-sense was applied.

In 2005, the same dives are conducted - but they are 'stunts' by a generation that wants to boast and giggle at their own foolish exploits.

It was't long before 130 ft "rule" magically appeared.

Absolutely. Because - without it - the modern generations wouldn't know where to stop.

What I really think is that all of the limit stuff is a combination of the Nanny phenemenon, lawyers and desire by some to perpetuate the illusion that diving is "safe", along with the 'Disneylandization" of diving.

I agree - but cannot determine whether that is a cause, or an effect.

Did this Nanny Phenemenon create the way we dive now - or is it a prudent reaction to the way that people have become?

All of the risk can not be eliminated from diving.

True - but most of it can be effectively mitigated.

Only you can think for you.
Only you can breathe for you.
Only you can survive for you.

Again, true. But what if 'you' don't have the capacity to judge your limits and assess your capabilities? What if you don't comprehend the risks?

 

[Richard L. Hornstein]

Maybe the best thing 2 do if they will not allow your wife is have 1 of theyre instructors do the deep adventure dive on that dive then she will be certified to dive to 100ft' she may have 2 watch a short video and read 1 section of the adventures in diving manual,the deep dive is a requirement towards aow. I hope this helps out

 

[LyndaD2]

Hey, if you're only OW certified, was certified 15+ years ago and haven't taken the additional training to get AOW in all that time, why would I want to dive with you? I'm glad the operators I use on my annual trips to Aruba and Hawaii seperate the OWs from the more experienced divers and stress the 60 foot "limit". If the planned dive site is deeper than that, they want the OWs to stay within site of the DM. I've seen OW divers go beyond that (way beyond in one case, to about 100 feet), sinking like a rock and driving to get to neutral buoyancy, then run out of air way early. By separating divers by experience within buddy teams or groups (best, on separate boats!), it's a safer and more pleasant diving experience for everyone. By the way, I got my AOW two months after getting OW in Nov 107, then MSD one year after OW. I've made over 370 dives in 3 1/2 years, but always pay attention to the DMs instructions and don't decide which rules I will or won't follow.

 

[Tahunga]

And what does a C-Card prove?
It proves that the holder has fullfilled the certification requirements at day X.
But if day X is more than a couple of months ago, what does he remember today and what is he able to do today?
If the AOW certification is five years old and the holder didn't dive within these five years, what is it worth today?



Probably in the states you have to act that way because of your liablity laws. Fortunately in other parts of the world they have other laws.

Maybe the solution is to throw the responsibility back at the diver by having him sign a "Release Form" which many agencies (including PADI) provide. It is quite true that many AOW and OW divers did the absolute minimum to get the card, and would be a liability on a real dive. On the other hand you may have divers like myself who got certified long before PADI existed and dove for years before I went back to get my official PADI certification. Now had I gone diving right after I completed my OW class, I would have potentially been refused to join a dive, although I had more dives under my belt than most instructors ever will have. ....Just some thoughts.

 

[ScubaJohn65]

The AOW course only takes 2 days. If you're already in South Florida, you could take an afternoon charter and night dive and 2 tank morning charter the next day. You could also do the same on your honeymoon in T&C. When I teach AOW, my classroom is the beach,the boat or the resaurant where we're eating lunch. The program is about diving and a little bit of additional dive knowledge.

 

[chmtklein]

I've been running and filling Charters out of O'ahu for the past three years. Although, I did not hard press the Basic OW divers . . . I fully cognizant of the capabilities and performance. Ergo, I was not daunted by the potential liabilities associated with my insurance or functions as a "working" Divemaster on charters. However, my closest Dive Buddy adhered extensively to the 60' limit if the Basic Open Water diver was an "unknown" quantity.

I believe liability and the fear of insurance coverage . . . especially in the PADI domain is driving the train for depth limits of 60' minus.

 

[Squirm88]

In case it was not clear, this is an old thread.

My wife and I went on our honeymoon a year ago. We had a great time diving Turks and Caicos. The dive operator had no problem with my wife's OW card. We got to enjoy some great wall dives around the 90' range. We logged 7 dives including a night dive from the beach.

 

[Richard L. Hornstein]

Wow i just got this in my inbox on 8-20-11 thats strange, but glad you guys had a great time

 

[ScubaCruiser54]

May be an old thread, but it is always nice to keep some things going so that others may learn...

The ultimate responsibility lies with each individual diver. The Cert Agencies all make you sign releases... Every operator I have been diving with has you sign a liability waiver....

You can't assure that a diver has appropriate training merely by looking at their C Card. I remember a dive in St. Marteen where two allegedly SUPER experienced Florida Divers with over 2000 dives each (no disrespect to all FLorida Divers) dropped into the first dive and were so overweighted and dive slobs that they sank like rocks, stomped all over the coral and fans on the bottom at 85 feet and them proceeded to dislodge and disturb every creature and plant that they wanted to with knives and pry bars that they had slipped into their gear.

They also ripped up sea cucumbers to feed fish and hassled every turtle we saw by pulling them out from under ledges that they were sleeping under and just generall being jerks. The DM could not control them and they totally ignored his directions to leave the critters alone and to surface.

I stayed with the Divemaster to be a witness to the actions and activities of these two experinced divers in the event they did something really stupid, like attack the DM, or in the event he needed a witness when he turned them in to authorities. I was shocked that he did not turn them in. These two were truly UGLY Americans. They were also why C cards and Certifications don't guarantee you that the diver will be safe, courteous, or worthy of being given leeway. The inexperienced divers with us were better than these two and I preferred diving with them versus being anywhere near the AOW duo....