OW certification in NJ - recommendations & prices

[Bobby_M]

I took my PADI OW at Rutgers and thought it was great. How many shops have a pool 17' deep?

When I did it 5 years ago, it was $250 but I had to pay the Dutch entry fee both checkout days as well as my own fills. I don't think you're going to find a better deal at any shop in the area. In fact, I haven't heard of a shop that doesn't make you at least buy mask, fins, snorkel. Rutgers also has showers so you can get the chlorine off after the class.

Bobby

 

[rscalzo]

Rutger's runs a great operation. The instructors are top notch..

 

[BigTuna]

Can a non-student do OW at Rutgers? If so, who would one contact there? Does Rutgers do specialties, too?

 

[DaveTheDiver]

Can a non-student do OW at Rutgers? If so, who would one contact there? Does Rutgers do specialties, too?

http://recreation.rutgers.edu/scuba/

OW is $180 for students, $275 for others. They offer Open Water, Advanced Open Water, Medic First Aid, Rescue Diver, Dive Master and Rebreather. All the info should be on their site.

Dave

 

[Bobby_M]

Can a non-student do OW at Rutgers? If so, who would one contact there? Does Rutgers do specialties, too?

Yup, John Lister, Yup.

Students and alumni get discounts while non students pay that full $300.

http://scuba.rutgers.edu/scuba/index.html is their website but they don't keep it as up to date as one would like, especially during the summer. I think you may have missed all the Summer O/W by now, but they start up in the fall coinciding with regular classes.

I know that they run PADI AOW and Nitrox once in a while, but I would say it's only benefitial if you have none of your own equipment and want to make use of the free equipment loan.

My favorite instructor is Charlie Firtion who does some of the Rutgers instruction but also does specialties and tech stuff through various other agencies outside of Rutgers. Highly recommended!! http://www.c-dreams.net/

Bobby

 

[rscalzo]

Crazy Charlie????? He's your favorite?

I would have thought that John's dry humor would make him the favorite of the operation.

 

[robinfante]

Do you seriously want to get the cheapest life-support instruction available? How does that make sense? Or do you think all shops are the same, so it doesn't matter? Put another way, how many shops have you looked at, because if you've been in more than one then you know that isn't the case. I'm not naming any names, but there are a few shops I'd be willing to take instruction with, and others I wouldn't let fill my tanks. Let's talk about examples: A shop where a friend was told that girls can't tech dive, its too hard for them - this AFTER they took lots of her money, did her tech training, and took her on a trip with lots of tech diving available. Another where the instructor was the least competent one in the water and bailed, and the other instructor sucked down a 120, then his pony, and came up on the divemasters pony - on a 20 minute dive to 90'. A shop where the divemaster wasn't trained, he was just the teenage kid of the instructor, and fell asleep underwater while supervising students. Yet another where, when I asked them to match the price on 20 lousy pounds of lead (while buying a $400 wetsuit) they cracked wise about "Who gave you that price? The Blond with big tits over at such and such?" Folks I saw in my instructor training, who were good friendly guys, lots of fun to be with, but they barely had their own skills sorted, much less being able to teach others. Another instructor who spent OW Dive One 40 feet away from the student, back to her, shooting fish, then sent her up alone when she got low on air. I could go on, but you get the idea: dickheads abound, you have to do due-diligence to make sure you don't get in the water with one. Basing your choice of instructor on price doesn't mean you'll get one, but if sure increases your chances.

My .02 on training at a university: Are they going to do your fills? Service your equipment? Offer equipment guidance? What are their hours, ie can you walk right in and talk to somebody (if a shop is closed on Sundays, that tells me they don't want my business)? Let you try out gear before you before you buy it? Discount it if you buy a bunch at once? Hook you up with a buddy when you want to dive? What is their instructor/divemaster-to-student ratio? Do they promote local diving? If not, does that change your perception of value? I know nothing about the Rutgers program (besides doing my instructor training in their pool - it was almost cruel to see such a nice pool), but for me personally that would be a deal breaker. New divers need a lot of mentoring and a lot of handholding, and the best outfit for that is a large dive shop that is on the ball. My problem with university classes (and a lot of dive shops) is that they train them, hand them a card, and that's it. Too often the diver goes on that trip to the Caribbean and then never goes in the water again. And who can blame them? They have no gear, little idea of where to dive in the area, and no one to do it with.

Disclaimer: I used to teach for TSC (left because I wanted more time to dive) and they are a first-class operation all the way. But that's not the point. Go check out the shop (whichever one(s) interest you), talk to the staff, see what they are about, what kind of diving they do. You are getting references here, that's good, get a lot more. Your friend is welcome to pmail me if she'd like, I'll be more frank than I would be on an open forum. But whatever you do, don't look for who can train you the cheapest, that's just ****ing crazy.

rob infante

 

[weekender]

"I know nothing about the Rutgers program " robinfante

You admit to being ignorant of all the facts about Rutgers yet make a long winded attack on them?

"My problem with university classes (and a lot of dive shops) is that they train them, hand them a card, and that's it." Robinfante

again, you have a problem with Rutgers yet you admit you know nothing about them. Seriously, am i the only person at work today who finds this a bit funny. The instructor that was recommended at Rutgers is a very experienced local diver who many would consider his mentor. He can be found diving almost every weekend on a boat he is also a captain of. Don't get me wrong, Charlie needs not be defended from you because he is well known and respected. I'm posting this so people who don't know him take the time to do so and ignore your admittedly ignorant post.

lastly, I normally enjoy and respect your comments. I dont mean to sound to confrontational. I just think you are attempting to insult and degrade an operation that is repected by many and you know nothing about it.

 

[rscalzo]

I second the fact that Robin knows nothing of Rutger Scuba Program. For your information, Rugter's fills their own tanks and can pump Nitrox. Their servicing is done either through Dosil's or by the instructor Charlie who is a certified tech in almost every line made today. His shop has every tool needed for servicing and is the ONLY one I would allow to service my gear. He does several other shops in the area also.

As far as his qualifications, he doesn't have to justify it. He is most happy inside a wreck of a cave and probably has more NJ/NY wreck dives than most here. His cave diving education never ends as he travels to either Mexico or Florida two orthree times a year to upgrade his standings.

I know for a fact that his desire in training is to offer something way beyond what the shops push out at an fast rate. He worked for shops but the limitations of restricted pool and classroom time turns him off. If you expect a quick course completed in record time, you won't be happy. If you want be be a certified safe diver when you are handed the c-card, them he is your man. Teaching at Rutgers give them the freedon to tell someone they aren't safe and will not be certified. They aren't in it for profit and run a break even operation. And lastly, beyond producing safe divers, Charlie wants to see divers that will continue in the sport. Most shops want to sell them gear and push them into their expensive warm water trips forgetting about the diving up in this area. What is the shops retention rate? Five percent at best. Charlie will bend over backwards to offer local trips to anyone who wants to tag along, during all twelve months. Some of the local shops understand that Rutgers is producing potential customers and work with them. Some justy bad mouth a great operation.

I understand how everyone likes to push his/her own shops but to slight another without knowing the facts doesn't show much tack.

 

[robinfante]

Wow I managed to be "insulting" "degrading" and "tactless", all on a Monday before lunch! I'm not pushing any shop, nor am I affiliated with any shop, nor did I question Charlie's abilities (whom I have dove with before, he's good people.) My comment about not knowing anything about the Rutgers program is because I have no first hand experience with Rutgers. I had heard feedback from folks that contradicted what is being said here, but I respect what bobby_m, weekender, and rscalzo said as they are less biased.

Lets all take a deep breath together, and I'll refine and add to my New Diver Dive Shop checklist:

- Fills Air and Nitrox, Trimix would be nice too.
- Friendly. I want a "Hello" when I walk in the door, and a "Whatcha been up to?" if I've been there a few times.
- Sells high quality gear, and lets you try it out first
- Services equipment, and in a timely fashion
- Rental gear is in fine fettle
- Offers discounts if several pieces bought at once
- Provides buddies
- Has a dm/instructor-to-student ratio of no more than 1:3, preferably 1:2
- Offers a broad range of classes at times convenient to me - no "we'll do that in a few months" garbage
- Instructors dive locally, and Dutch doesn't count
- Has a pool in their shop, preferably with a deep deep-end.
- Takes training beyond the minimum standards
- Emphasizes buoyancy control and horizontal trim from day one in the pool
- Emphasizes self-reliance within the context of the buddy team
- How often do they NOT certify someone? That's a big plus. What do they do if someone doesn't meet standards?
- Promotes local diving, runs trips - basically makes it easy to get on a boat
- Open 7 days, or at least open Saturday and Sunday
- If I call or email a question, I expect an answer in a day or two.

Any program that covers those points bears looking into. If not, then in my opinion, it does not. YMMV, you are free to disagree. You are also free to get enraged by it.