Oversight of Dive shops by Dive Agencies (PADI, NAUI, etc.)

[rawls]

Perhaps you should crossover...

I would be shot I have the utmost respect for the person responsible for developing the class the way it works. She is my instructor and the LDS owner. I owe her a debt of gratitude I can never repay. She gives her life to diving and teaching new divers...And she takes absolutely no bull hockey when it comes to doing things the right way for students...Yeah...I would be shot
BTW, Thanks for the kudos...We do cover all of the standards...but I guess we violate them too...Her shop number is 224...PADI isn't going to say a thing.

 

[rawls]

OOPS...Double post....

 

[Thalassamania]

I would be shot I have the utmost respect for the person responsible for developing the class the way it works. She is my instructor and the LDS owner. I owe her a debt of gratitude I can never repay. She gives her life to diving and teaching new divers...And she takes absolutely no bull hockey when it comes to doing things the right way for students...Yeah...I would be shot
BTW, Thanks for the kudos...We do cover all of the standards...but I guess we violate them too...Her shop number is 224...PADI isn't going to say a thing.

From what I can see you guys are outside of standards. Appropriately so, necessarily so, but still ... outside of standards, good job or no. And that's exactly the point ... to do a good job you must be outside of what is a poorly thought out progression.

 

[Puffer Fish]

1. What book are you refering to? New Science?
2. When was this? 1974 or 75?
3. Who was the Course Director? Flahan? Graver? Bangasser?
4. Where in San Diego was the ITC held?

I suspect that you had a CD who had his own opinions about what policy should be.

It was at San Diego State, and I will check on who officially was the course director (I know Flahan was there, if my memory still partially works)

74 - May or June.

I am moving right now, but I happen to see that I still had my course list in stuff I should have thrown away years ago. Give me a week and I will have the names of everyone - will PM you.

It may perhaps be a bit incorrect to say the "New science" was a NAUI text, but my perspective had been, that as the recommended text, it was, be default, NAUI's text (meaning the one they wanted us to use). I suppose that comes from all the college classes that had "recommended" texts, that were actually something you had to have. Also, as my instructor was a Navy Commander, and about half the people in San Diego were active or retired military, we tended to take everything, including "recommendations" as directives. Just a military mind set sort of thing.

 

[Thalassamania]

It may perhaps be a bit incorrect to say the "New science" was a NAUI text, but my perspective had been, that as the recommended text, it was, be default, NAUI's text (meaning the one they wanted us to use). I suppose that comes from all the college classes that had "recommended" texts, that were actually something you had to have. Also, as my instructor was a Navy Commander, and about half the people in San Diego were active or retired military, we tended to take everything, including "recommendations" as directives. Just a military mind set sort of thing.

Don’t go through a whole lot of trouble, the last statement I think sums up what I suspected. NAUI has never had a required text, but some CDs have pushed one over another. Despite being a contributor to "New Science," I always encouraged candidates to use the NOAA manual.

 

[Karibelle]

I guess you could look at it like that. OTOH, you could start them off right at the beginning and cut the learning curve a great deal. Your assignment, should you decide to accept it, is to find other examples. As usual, if you or any of your IM force is caught or killed, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.

By start them off right - I try my best to do this, and then fine-tune as we go along... We may just be having a difference in terminology or perception - sometimes it's difficult in written word only.

I will work on this assignment; you'll hear from me again on the subject when I have something for us to discuss! :14:

kari

 

[Karibelle]

We do not necessarily follow the progression in the PADI instructor's manual, but we do include all of the standards as set forth in the manual. Some session 2 skills are included in session one, 3 in session 2, etc...PADI has never said a thing about the way we do our progressions and they are represented well being course directors are there frequently teaching IDC. I don't understand why so many of you would say that a PADI course is inflexible. We are allowed tremendous amounts of flexibility as long as the standards are met.

When you say that you do not follow the progression, do you still conduct the skills "in order"? What I mean is, do you complete all of the module 2 skills before you introduce module 3 skills? Above, when you mention breathing from a free flowing regulator, that is not a module 1 skill. It is my understanding that if you introduce that skill prior to completion of all module 1 skills, you would not be meeting standards. Can you elaborate?

And isn't it true that PADI would never "approach" you until and unless there is a perceived standards violation that is reported to PADI and results in a QA investigation? PADI doesn't go around watching dive shops/instructors conduct classes and proactively telling them what is wrong... An instructor can pretty much do whatever he wants until someone blows the whistle - isn't that right?

kari

 

[knotical]

NAUI has never had a required text, . . .

I don’t doubt you, but I am curious (or nosey?).

I have a book called The NAUI Textbook, Eighth Edition, © 1990, which says on the cover: “For Entry Level Scuba Diver and Openwater I Scuba Diver Training Courses”.

Was this book not popular with NAUI instructors? It looks like a pretty good book.

I am not a NUAI instructor, the book was a gift.

 

[Thalassamania]

It's a good book, it's use is not required.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I have one example right here for ya, Darlin.

Session 1

7. Swim underwater with scuba equipment while maintaining control of both direction and depth......

Session 2

11. Adjust for proper weighting..........

Session 3

1. Independently establish neutral buoyancy under water........

The skill taught in pool session 2 (proper weighting) is one of the first skills a student should learn. The skill taught in pool session 3 (neutral buoyancy) should come right after weighting. Both are necessary before a student and accomplish the skill required in pool session 1 (swimming underwater on SCUBA while maintaining control of depth).

Look at your standards with an open, questioning mind.

Yes and I could certainly add examples.

My questions is, why don't PADI instructors see this and demand more from the agency before sending them money?

Your example alone, clearly demonstrates, beyond any shadow of doubt, PADIs total and absolute cluelessness on all things diving (with the exception of marketing).

How could anyone with a few dives under their belt actually be willing to accept PADI as any sort of expert or authority on diving and actually send them money?

Lets just call it underwater tourist breathing and give up trying to justify it as diving.