Overpriced OW class?

[PinkInkScuba]

I don't find that outrageous, but it is on the high end of normal. I think you need to ask what else it includes, books, rental gear, OW fees, gas fills, instructor fees, DM tips, camping at the OW checkout, pool fees, etc. Someone else's $275 that includes books and c-card may not include the rest of the stuff I mentioned, and all of that is going to get charged to you one way or another. It's a fallacy that there are cheap scuba courses out there. They may range $25 or $50, but that's about it. Make yourself a matrix that includes those other things I mentioned, then ask where OW class is. I know a dive shop in Houston that will push you to do your OW checkout dives in Cozumel, adding an easy $1500 to the bill. Of course, you're in Cozumel....

If you do find a cheap scuba course, they are likely taking it out of the Divemaster and Instructor's hide (fees). Do you want to learn from the cheapest contractor?

It tends to be SSI shops that insist you buy your gear from them. It's part of their marketing technique. It isn't wrong, it is what it is. I'd like you to use pawn shop gear when I teach, because you're going to replace the fins a couple of times and the mask at least 3 times. Actually, I think it's a shame that dive shops won't let you try their masks, it lets you use 3 or 4 of them without committing to one, and when you find the right one, buy it then.

Our $275 includes everything and we are an SSI shop that doesn't require purchase of equipment from us.

 

[Shasta_man]

<<does not include dvd video that standards require for student to view>>

The DVD is required now? I thought it was only optional.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I should add that there is no DVD required and each diver doesn't even have to own the Graver Manual. If a couple chooses to share one I take 25.00 off the price of one of the classes. Gear Rental here for a weekend of checkout dives including two tanks is 75.00. And they can easily put together a set of good quality mask, snorkel ( I only recommend simple cheap j tubes), and fins and boots for under 150.00. The local check out dive places are all free. No quarry fees. And all within an hour to an hour and half drive, so unless they come from out of town - no overnights in a hotel. It all depends on what they want to do. If they want to go to ohio to dive the quarries there for checkouts then there are entry fees. And they pay my expenses as well. But all of this is explained up front when we go over the learning agreement that must be signed before we even start training and before I collect any money from them. I mean we need to interview each other and make sure this is the class for them before I take any fees from them.
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[oly5050user]

Our $275 includes everything and we are an SSI shop that doesn't require purchase of equipment from us.

for the sake of curiosity how are the instructors paid? If the $275 is for everythhing, meaning books,pool,rentals,certification card fee, ow training fee, ow rental fee, what is left after everything to pay staff? I hope it is more than $50. Here at the facility I work out of , for group course instr is paid per hr for academic and confined water. Paid per head basis for ow training dives. Average comes out to about $700. start to finish for a class of 5..

 

[redacted]

leisure pro have a erdpml in the package? I did not look up what their price was..does it also include the ow dvd, as we do?
i do know of any shop billing for pool time apart from course tuition
everything depreciates..go buy a car , use it for 2 years then sell it..it costs you to maintain it, fuel it, insure.. some shops sell their rental gear close to for what they paid for it.They still had to maintain it and service it to sell and does cost..We do not sell our rental gear ..we destroy it and throw it into dumpster.
Tanks are perhaps the only thing we may sell used., and then it is so rare for us to do so why bother.
True just because higher price does not mean high value..good advise to shop around. our prices are almost same as others in NYC area.Sometimes within as little as $20. more or less. What we feel here is we offer best value as our instructors teach on a continual basis, some teach as many 20-25 classes or more a year. what we can offer that no other in the area can is our own onsite indoor heated salt water pool. what that means to the student is more pool time than any other facility in the area can offer whenever needed. More flexibility in scheduling pool time, not being chased out of pool when contracted time is up.

I just looked at leisure pro offering for crew pack.It is a closeout.materials will not be current as of this July 1st when new materials are required to be used...does not include dvd video that standards require for student to view.

It does not include the DVD but it should not be necessary for each student to buy that anyway. Local shops here have a couple copies of the DVD for students to view. EFFICIENCY.

When you sell something for more than you paid for it, that is called appreciation (profit) , not depreciation (loss). When you take perfectly good used regulator and other gear and destroy it, that is not called EFFICIENCY. And then you want to pass the cost off to the students/customers??? Actually, I believe I understand exactly what is going on here, If you don't have any used gear to offer them, they will have to buy new gear.

Shops that have a business model based on competitively getting and keeping as many customers in scuba should have a good chance of success. Shops that have a business model based on maximum profit with every transaction should be driven out of business by shops with an efficient and effective business model. It seems fairly clear which category your shops falls in. It worked in the past. It may continue to work for a while in the future. But eventually....

 

[oly5050user]

I see it being more efficient to sell DVD to student. They get it to view at home and they can review whenever they like. No time wasted in the classroom watching it and we do not have to worry about it being returned. No need to call student repeatedly trying to get them to return it. If we did like you said we would need to keep more than "a couple" of DVDs around, more like 30-40 will be needed and then would need to be kept track of so, that they are returned on time. Easier to sell them and this way no further need to track it. That's efficient. If customer is on such a tight budget they can return it and get store credit in return. They never do that here in this area, never even happened 1 time.
We feel that what we are doing is correct. We throw out old junk and put in new. Simple. As to business model, it must be working. Owner does not want to take responsibility for selling possible junk gear.If someone wants to buy used gear they can go on eBay and get it. We will happily service it for them. I do not own the place, only teach there and I am making more here and get paid on time better than any other facility I taught out of. Place has been in business for 15 years. Building is bought and paid for, no mortgage as of 2 -3 years ago, with a large parking lot and it's own indoor heated salt water pool. Absolutely NO OTHER facility in the area has their own parking lot or in house pool. No other dive facility has a building that is owner owned,they all rent space from a landlord.
I have multiple classes running each week. Just finished a private ow course this evening and have another with 2 students starting in 2 days. Another private starts on Wednesday for 3 people. Have a group ow class starting in a week. A private I still have to finish next week is for only 1 17 yr old female and she is already fully geared up with all Scubapro equipment, she leaves for Indonesia on April for a marine science project sponsored by her private school that she attends in Switzerland. We get high end clientele here in Westchester and really do not seek out bargain hunters. Our location is in a affluent area. We charge no more than what the local market will bear and are very often priced the same or less than others in the NY metro area.
In fact when a customer purchases gear I have seen the owner of the facility regularly look up online to what Leisure pro sells it for and he matches it without the customer even asking for any kind of deal !
Granted what works here may not work elsewhere, but it's good for us.

 

[humuhumunukunuku]

I did my course with NAUI in Florida. Cost $50 plus $40 for book and cert. We had to have our own snorkel gear which I already, and for some insane reason they made us purchase our own weight belt and weights and pushed the soft pouch belt and bean bag type weights on us - completely useless! but only $25. So basically I paid $115 for open water course which included the theory classes at the shop, the training sessions in the pool, two dives in some lake and two more dives in the ocean off a boat.

 

[oly5050user]

I did my course with NAUI in Florida. Cost $50 plus $40 for book and cert. We had to have our own snorkel gear which I already, and for some insane reason they made us purchase our own weight belt and weights and pushed the soft pouch belt and bean bag type weights on us - completely useless! but only $25. So basically I paid $115 for open water course which included the theory classes at the shop, the training sessions in the pool, two dives in some lake and two more dives in the ocean off a boat.

In what year was this? Sounds like mid to late 60's..$50 back then is like $850 today.

 

[humuhumunukunuku]

In what year was this? Sounds like mid to late 60's..$50 back then is like $850 today.

1999!

 

[Scubagolf]

In what year was this? Sounds like mid to late 60's..$50 back then is like $850 today.

Actually, using the CPI, $50 in 1965 had the same purchasing power as $371 in 2014.