Overpriced OW class?

[Jim Lapenta]

My OW class this year is going to be 395.00 and includes all classroom materials, 16 hours of classroom and 16 hours in the pool plus OW checkouts at a local freshwater site. That is for a semi private class of 2-4 students. I don't take more than 4 people at a time. Private classes are 600.00. If the student does not want to do the dives in the local spot I am more than happy to travel. At their expense. I had one student fly me down to Puerto Rico to do his checkouts while he was there on business. He took care of the hotel, meals, transportation, and boat fees. I have also had a family drive nearly 3 hours round trip for 6 weeks twice a week to have me train their daughters. I did my best to schedule some longer days on the weekends to combine classroom in the morning and pool in the afternoon to make it a bit easier.

Student needs to have their own mask, snorkel, fins and boots by the end of pool session 4. Reason is that the shop whose pool I use and refer students to for personal gear has at least one of every mask, snorkel, and fin they sell in the pool for students to try and make an informed decision. While I do sell gear it makes more sense to not have to stock multiple sizes of every item when I don't need to. I have some of course but if my students buy gear from the shop that owns the pool my pool fees go down substantially. So we all win.

Students also rent their gear for checkouts from this shop as well. Another way to keep my costs down and help out the shop that works with me. In this area co-operating with what others would see as my competition works for everyone.

 

[oly5050user]

one of the shops here is advertising $350 for Padi OW
includes: instructional material, pool fees, boat fees, rental gear, & c-card cost. You provide mask,fins,snorkel, & weights (can buy at the shop) and will buy back weights at end of course if you don't want em. This is almost directly from their email advert.
it's a reputable shop.


ask questions of the shop & the instructor that would be teaching... there are stickys about this
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ng/287780-how-find-excellent-scuba-class.html

it'll give you ideas what questions to ask etc

lets break to his down. If a PADI course crewpack and DVD cost $105. Student required by standards to own log book,text,redpoll or rdp so they plan dives. Pool fee,low ball it at$50. , boat fee, again lowball it at $100. For the required 2days required.certification card fee$25.rental gear for 2days, again low ball it at $100.Thats about $380 right there...now figure in fuel costs,insurance,depreciation on rental and instructors gear,etc.. Now you know why so many LDS go out of business.
I would like to know how much the instructor is paid. You can bet it is less than minimum wage, if he gets anything at all. Forget about working for tips. Same cheap non commited people never tip (groupon type consumer as an example)) This is what is wrong with the industry ..cater to people who want only low cost . Using young inexperienced instructors who do not know better, that working for next to nothing only hurts the industry, customers who make next to zero financial commitment , only leads to poor training.

---------- Post added March 13th, 2014 at 09:36 AM ----------

My OW class this year is going to be 395.00 and includes all classroom materials, 16 hours of classroom and 16 hours in the pool plus OW checkouts at a local freshwater site. That is for a semi private class of 2-4 students. I don't take more than 4 people at a time. Private classes are 600.00. If the student does not want to do the dives in the local spot I am more than happy to travel. At their expense. I had one student fly me down to Puerto Rico to do his checkouts while he was there on business. He took care of the hotel, meals, transportation, and boat fees. I have also had a family drive nearly 3 hours round trip for 6 weeks twice a week to have me train their daughters. I did my best to schedule some longer days on the weekends to combine classroom in the morning and pool in the afternoon to make it a bit easier.

Student needs to have their own mask, snorkel, fins and boots by the end of pool session 4. Reason is that the shop whose pool I use and refer students to for personal gear has at least one of every mask, snorkel, and fin they sell in the pool for students to try and make an informed decision. While I do sell gear it makes more sense to not have to stock multiple sizes of every item when I don't need to. I have some of course but if my students buy gear from the shop that owns the pool my pool fees go down substantially. So we all win.

Students also rent their gear for checkouts from this shop as well. Another way to keep my costs down and help out the shop that works with me. In this area co-operating with what others would see as my competition works for everyone.

Looks to be priced realistically and fair. The independent instructor can make something your way. Not a lot,but teaching someone will not cost you to teach them. For the student,they see the $395 ow course actually is more like $550.after paying for rentals on training dives, add in another $200.for quality mask,fins,snkl,boots. If they had to pay a boat fee or quarry admission price can easily go to as much as $900+. Add in gas for transportation, possible overnight at a hotel,food, etc and you are up to over $1,000.

 

[fjpatrum]

... Forget about working for tips. Same cheap non commited people never tip (groupon type consumer as an example)) This is what is wrong with the industry ..cater to people who want only low cost . Using young inexperienced instructors who do not know better, that working for next to nothing only hurts the industry, customers who make next to zero financial commitment , only leads to poor training.

I find it funny that you seem to always equate wanting to get a good deal with being a cheapskate. I routinely tip over 20% and always look for groupon deals and similar pricing options. I was also very committed to my OW class and the education necessary to be a good and safe diver but I bought based upon price almost exclusively. It turned out that I had a reasonably decent OW class that covered what I needed to get me started in the right direction, unlike many who shop on price, so I was lucky.

Make no mistake, though, there are plenty of people paying top dollar for **** that are still cheapskates and non-commital.

Al that said, I think $350 for an OW class is ludicrously low (for a shop---probably more feasible for independent instructors), to the point that it's not worth it to the shop/instructor to bother. If you have to price your classes just to get people in and then gouge them on equipment ($200 for mask/fins/snorkel is NOT reasonable, in my opinion) then you're in a losing game.

 

[iluvtheocean]

the shop i was referring to -- been in business at least 16 years and the price i mentioned is a sale price till the end of the month and i believe it's spread over 2 weeks (different schedules are more expensive. rental EQ doesn't have to be included in the cost - just depreciated. Don't forget the prices are also area dependent and also by the amount of competition. The prices i've listed are strictly for South Florida where there are a lot of shops.
For Example Force-E for OW price ranges from $300 (class of 4 or more) to $450 for private (plus instructional material) -Pricing includes equipment rental, pool and boat fees. - and they've got 3 different locations and been here for 40 years. (these prices are right off their website and aren't sales prices.)

 

[redacted]

lets break to his down. If a PADI course crewpack and DVD cost $105. Student required by standards to own log book,text,redpoll or rdp so they plan dives. Pool fee,low ball it at$50. , boat fee, again lowball it at $100. For the required 2days required.certification card fee$25.rental gear for 2days, again low ball it at $100.Thats about $380 right there...now figure in fuel costs,insurance,depreciation on rental and instructors gear,etc.. Now you know why so many LDS go out of business.
I would like to know how much the instructor is paid. You can bet it is less than minimum wage, if he gets anything at all. Forget about working for tips. Same cheap non commited people never tip (groupon type consumer as an example)) This is what is wrong with the industry ..cater to people who want only low cost . Using young inexperienced instructors who do not know better, that working for next to nothing only hurts the industry, customers who make next to zero financial commitment , only leads to poor training.

---------- Post added March 13th, 2014 at 09:36 AM ----------


Looks to be priced realistically and fair. The independent instructor can make something your way. Not a lot,but teaching someone will not cost you to teach them. For the student,they see the $395 ow course actually is more like $550.after paying for rentals on training dives, add in another $200.for quality mask,fins,snkl,boots. If they had to pay a boat fee or quarry admission price can easily go to as much as $900+. Add in gas for transportation, possible overnight at a hotel,food, etc and you are up to over $1,000.

While some courses may offer a higher quality of learning, most simply charge different prices for the same end product. The biggest differences are in the efficiencies they employ in their classes and the level of BS they employ to recruit students.


For example, the OW training materials: PADI eRDP Open Water Crew-Pak with Blue Log Book (60067) at LeisurePro

Some shops have their own pool. Any that are paying $50 per student to rent pool time should probably be avoided.

OW dives: Some save $$ by doing the OW dives at a minimal expense.

Depreciation of rental gear???? You don't "depreciate" something that your get at a discount from the manufacturer, use for a number of years, and then sell, used, for a price greater that you payed for it.

Bottom line: Shop around and see what is available in your area. Don't assume that higher prices bring a better learning experience. Without good reason, why would anyone go with other than the best value?

 

[oly5050user]

While some courses may offer a higher quality of learning, most simply charge different prices for the same end product. The biggest differences are in the efficiencies they employ in their classes and the level of BS they employ to recruit students.


For example, the OW training materials: PADI eRDP Open Water Crew-Pak with Blue Log Book (60067) at LeisurePr

Some shops have their own pool. Any that are paying $50 per student to rent pool time should probably be avoided.

OW dives: Some save $$ by doing the OW dives at a minimal expense.

Depreciation of rental gear???? You don't "depreciate" something that your get at a discount from the manufacturer, use for a number of years, and then sell, used, for a price greater that you payed for it.

Bottom line: Shop around and see what is available in your area. Don't assume that higher prices bring a better learning experience. Without good reason, why would anyone go with other than the best value?

leisure pro have a erdpml in the package? I did not look up what their price was..does it also include the ow dvd, as we do?
i do know of any shop billing for pool time apart from course tuition
everything depreciates..go buy a car , use it for 2 years then sell it..it costs you to maintain it, fuel it, insure.. some shops sell their rental gear close to for what they paid for it.They still had to maintain it and service it to sell and does cost..We do not sell our rental gear ..we destroy it and throw it into dumpster.
Tanks are perhaps the only thing we may sell used., and then it is so rare for us to do so why bother.
True just because higher price does not mean high value..good advise to shop around. our prices are almost same as others in NYC area.Sometimes within as little as $20. more or less. What we feel here is we offer best value as our instructors teach on a continual basis, some teach as many 20-25 classes or more a year. what we can offer that no other in the area can is our own onsite indoor heated salt water pool. what that means to the student is more pool time than any other facility in the area can offer whenever needed. More flexibility in scheduling pool time, not being chased out of pool when contracted time is up.

I just looked at leisure pro offering for crew pack.It is a closeout.materials will not be current as of this July 1st when new materials are required to be used...does not include dvd video that standards require for student to view.

 

[Texanguy]

The place I am looking at has there own pool so that one expense i don't have. I have also had people tell me that group classes suck and private lessons are really worth it. thoughts?

 

[oly5050user]

The place I am looking at has there own pool so that one expense i don't have. I have also had people tell me that group classes suck and private lessons are really worth it. thoughts?

Depends..if you are a decent swimmer and comfortable in the water probably no need for private unless a group class does not fit your schedule and a private flexible schedule based on your needs and availability is easier..I do ALOT of private schedule classes and we are available 24 hrs a day / 7 days a week classroom and pool ...want an instructor/ class 12 noon,we can do it..want instructor / class at 2am, we can do it..

 

[flots am]

I recently was looking for a dive instructor for my OW class, and the one place I went to was going to charge me $500 per-person for a group class, plus I had to buy my mask, snorkel, and fins from them, which he said would cost 300 to 400 dollars. He was a PADI instructor. Does this seem overpriced?

The class price isn't out of line if it includes everything.

$300-$400 for M, F & S is on the high side, but not impossible, depending on what you choose.

I happen to like SCUBAPRo Twin Jets because I have a couple of bad joints. The fins run ~$220. If you're younger and in better shape, Jet fins are around $120. They both last literally forever, and can be had used on eBay for about half price.

A good mask will run ~$50-$120. Buy the mask that fits the best, and has a temepred glass lens (it will say "tempered glass" on the lens). Everything else is just marketing.

A good snorkel will run ~$10-$50.

I will say that it's a really dick move to say "You have to buy it here".

My general response to "have to" is to mention that the only thing I "have to" do is pay taxes and die, and the first one is really optional. If they won't teach the class without selling you the equipment, find another shop.

flots.

 

[fjpatrum]

Any shop that requires you to buy gear from them for the class should definitely be avoided. I had one shop insist that and they wanted to force me to buy 30 pounds of lead at $4 a pound too... even though I've never had more than 18 pounds of lead on my body and generally have none at all. I clearly didn't use them and told them why.